Ever Onward Podcast

Bill Whitacre: Reflections on Business, Travel, and Life's Lessons | Ever Onward - Ep. 36

• Ahlquist. • Season 1 • Episode 36

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Welcome back to Ever Onward! 
This week's guest is Bill Whitacre. Bill is the former JR Simplot Company CEO. Bill returns to the podcast to talk about his thrilling multi-country motorcycle tour. This segment intertwines professional wisdom with personal joy, offering a holistic view on life post-retirement.

Get ready for a whirlwind tour of global perspectives as we discuss the world's curiosity about American politics and policies, touching on Hitler's propaganda techniques and the troubling issues of genocide and human trafficking. Discover the resilience of the Ukrainian people amidst ongoing conflict and explore fascinating travel observations, from Denmark's bike culture to quirky gas stations across Europe. We wrap up the episode with captivating stories that help us all understand the transformative power of travel and the invaluable perspectives it brings.

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Ahlquist Update: 
How do you maintain long-term business relationships in a fast-paced world? Also in this episode, hear from Mark Cleverley of Ahlquist as he shares insider tips on fostering strong partnerships through meaningful activities like golf. Mark shares updates on current Ahlquist commercial real estate projects in Boise, Idaho including drawing on Fred Bruning's decades-long ties with Target and Trader Joe's. 

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Speaker 1:

Today on the Ever Onward podcast, we have a great friend and mentor, bill Whitaker. Bill is the former CEO of the JR Simplot Company. He is originally from Missouri, before coming to Idaho and serving at the JR Simplot Company and eventually being the CEO. He retired in 2018 and since that time has become a world traveler really an explorer, who shares those explorations in a way that is really unique. It's going to be great to catch up on Bill. He just got back from a 15-country tour on his motorcycle and just can't wait to hear how he's doing. Prior to getting to Bill Whitaker as our guest today, we're going to hear from Mark Cleverley, one of our partners here at Allquist, who leads our leasing, to catch up with him and see what's going on with Mark Cleverley. So we'll start with Mark Cleverley. Rock and roll, marcus back on Tommy, back on.

Speaker 1:

You're dragging a little butt today.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I'm dragging a butt. I was up at 5 in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. Flew home just to be on the podcast.

Speaker 1:

I do think it's funny how we go on these business trips and you and Ryan went and played golf at one of the best courses in Idaho. I was just telling these guys Circling Raven, circling Raven.

Speaker 2:

Number one course in northern Idaho. It was amazing. So you guys went and had a business meeting yeah, 18 holes and I went and went and worked. Well, you call golf is work. I'm exhausted.

Speaker 1:

Well, it was a great trip. It was a great trip, hey, um, what we want to talk a little bit today was, um, let's talk about this one first, like, first, like I think, uh, we have a saying around here that it's all about relationships. Yeah, I think over time it is, and we're up there with long-term relationships, some new deals we're looking at in cornell lane, but what's the importance of relationships on your side of things?

Speaker 2:

well, yeah, I mean, we, we kind of joke about golfing, right, but it's, it's very necessary in keeping a really good relationship with these people that we work with. Yeah, and for us, yeah, it's all about relationships. We try to instill that into our team, that, even from from construction to property management, to leasing, to development, it's all about relationships, because without relationships in our business and really in any business, you have nothing and it's all about, you know, the attraction that you, that you're gaining from these people and and then and then making sure that you're not just it's not just one deal and over it's. Hey, we've created a friendship here and a relationship that we want to continue to work with you guys.

Speaker 1:

It's fantastic. You know who a great example of that is is Fred Bruning. Yes, fred's amazing at it. We talk a lot about him on the podcast, but I was talking to him yesterday. He's got several of these people we meet with he's been working with for 30-plus years. It's a great example of just how and I think it fits right in in harmony with our I know we were up there with a couple of members of his team yesterday and it's just, it's the same ethos, right. It's like how do we, how do we do this for a long time together? Well, that's awesome.

Speaker 2:

Well and out of those 30 years, 30 plus years relationships. I mean, look at how many target deals he's done and Trader Joe's. The list goes on and on and on. And they trust him.

Speaker 1:

So last question on it, then what's the secret to keeping him Playing?

Speaker 2:

golf. He's so full of crap.

Speaker 1:

That's a heck of an all-quist update today. Play more golf. What was the nickname on the course yesterday? They were calling you oh, mc Hammer, mc Hammer, hammer.

Speaker 2:

yep, because you're out driving everybody, yeah okay, no, I think the secret is is is man you gotta, you gotta make sure that don't let it slip right like you gotta stay on it, you know. Reach out to him, go to lunch, go to go to dinner, hang out, all that stuff, all right, buddy, thanks, thank you.

Speaker 1:

Hey, it's great to see you. It's awesome.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, thank you, you're back. I'm actually excited I'm back and glad to be here. Oh, buddy.

Speaker 1:

You know what's great For people that don't follow you. You have a great following, but it's fun to see where you are.

Speaker 3:

Oh good.

Speaker 1:

It's fun to watch and I can't wait to hear about this. We haven't talked. We were going to go to lunch, Right right, and then I had a grandbaby.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I know which is great. This is so cool, she's so awesome.

Speaker 1:

This is so cool.

Speaker 3:

Oh, Bill, I get pretty emotional. Oh, you're like me.

Speaker 1:

I get like so. I remember the first time Brooklyn had our grandson Cash who's now four, is he four? And I was like it was overwhelming for me to watch my baby daughter just have a baby of her own. And then she had Jack, and now this is the first granddaughter and she wanted one. So bad Bill, she wanted a little girl so bad. I mean, we were all nervous. We're like hey, this is a 50, 50 deal. You know, you don't know.

Speaker 3:

So she didn't know you. None of you know she knew.

Speaker 1:

She knew it's actually a little bit of a story I'll tell. So she. She did one of those early pregnancy tests right right, and it came back girl.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, great, right, so now you can go to ballgreens or whatever and they do a blood test early, early and she's. So she kind of like me. She's pretty uh, neurotic is probably a bad word but very worried about stuff. So on her, she goes out and buys a second test and thinks I'm going to just confirm that it's a girl. Oh wow, the second one comes back a boy.

Speaker 3:

Oh God.

Speaker 1:

Then she calls her doctor and she's like well, we can do a blood test. So anyways this long story. I sit reading about it because I didn't know about these tests, but I'm like studying. I about it because I didn't know about these tests, but I'm like studying, I'm looking at the science behind it and I call her. I said I think it's a false positive Cause. If you were in the bathroom, matthew's hair or anything got in their DNA. I said I think you're okay, but it took all these months. And then the whole time she's just agonizing, thinking oh my gosh, she'd already told everyone she'd have a girl.

Speaker 3:

Anyway, it was a girl. And what a thrill, I mean. And I swear that little girl is smiling in that picture. Oh, she's a dream. Well you think about. You have a tight family, yeah. And to add every time you add a member, you're adding something so special, yeah.

Speaker 1:

We're really lucky they live so close. Oh yeah, we see them almost every day.

Speaker 3:

Well, and you built that place for family, oh yeah, those boys are over every day Anyway. Yeah, good stuff. It's great to see you. Am I close enough, by the way?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you just got back from your big European.

Speaker 3:

Well, I did. You know, in all honesty, it wasn't one of my typical trips. You know, to travel in first world setting is not really what.

Speaker 1:

Because you're usually third world back country.

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah, yeah, crazy story, and this is not the case. I was determined to get to the Nordkapp of Norway and also to experience, you know, norway.

Speaker 1:

Hey cause? So people that don't know cause, I just want to make sure. So, Bill Whitaker, um, since retirement as the CEO of Simplot, you've really traveled the world and the goal has been to kind of see it through the eyes that people usually don't travel. So you've been on a motorcycle across most continents.

Speaker 3:

Well, I have. I've crossed six continents and you know I should have counted it up, but I'm approaching 60 countries in the last four years and five years and it's been a spectacular experience for me. I mean, it's just part of the frustration with it is what do I do with it? How do I create value? How can I make a contribution with what I'm experiencing?

Speaker 1:

Well, you've done a book that's on our coffee table.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And then you've got along the way, the stories you're telling. Tell us about this trip, though, because I'm fascinated. So I think I counted 15 countries, right, right. And you started in Spain, right, that's right.

Speaker 3:

And then you ended in Germany, yeah, so a year ago I was in Spain with a friend of mine from Argentina. He now lives in Germany. Yeah, so a year ago I was in Spain with a friend of mine from Argentina he now lives in Miami and Pablo and I put, stored the bikes because it was 105, 10 degrees. You know, in the back of our mind we're thinking we need to get to North Africa, and so we're close, and so let's store the bikes in Malaga and then we'll head back over and get on with North Africa or someplace. I love Africa. So anyway, we head back and pick up the bikes and we decide to go north because the 80th anniversary of D-Day was going on. So we still needed some Spain activities. Can you see?

Speaker 1:

if you can find we're going to do something a little different with you today, bill, because we do have. So we've got your for those watching on YouTube. Incredible journey, like the journaling of the journey is amazing for those that follow along the journaling of the journey is amazing for those that follow along.

Speaker 3:

So so, so I'm, you know I am not good at social media but I feel kind of responsible to, to you know, kind of post some interesting stuff. I and I and I boy, I, you don't know how try, how hard. I try never to post anything political or controversial, because that's not really what I'm doing here. You're a smart man right, that's right.

Speaker 1:

Anyway. So for those following along, so you started in Spain, right, and tell us about the D-Day thing, because I know you were excited to do that.

Speaker 3:

I haven't talked to you. It was huge. And so I, for some reason, I became kind of totally immersed in World War II and actually even before World War II and trying to understand you know, how did we ever get here and how did this happen? And how could this unbelievable, awful person, adolf Hitler, create this? You know, how did he create this disaster for the people of Germany and Europe and the world for that matter? And so I became obsessed with it to some degree and I kind of started backwards.

Speaker 3:

I started when I was in Georgia, in Uzbekistan, in Eastern Europe, and I started going, man, the post-World War II years were really hard. You know, the Stalin years were really hard on Eastern Europe. And then I backed it right into the fact that I need to understand World War II. And so a couple of years ago I spent time at concentration camps in Poland. I actually went to the Ukrainian border two different times during the war, decided not to go in and be part of the mess. The other thing is is I don't know about getting out, because the lines were massive.

Speaker 1:

We love you, Bill. We want you to come back.

Speaker 3:

So, anyway, the concentration camps were so moving to me that I needed more information, so I went and spent time in Nuremberg and went through all the history of the trials. So I spent all this time. Now I've got to figure out how did D-Day work, how did Battle of the Bulge work? What did it mean to take Pegasus Bridge in Normandy? And that was the experience that we went for. My friend Pablo was with me and it was unbelievably moving to be there during the 80th anniversary.

Speaker 1:

Tell us about it. I mean, I'm sitting here thinking because you know Holt Hager that works here.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So his grandfather was there. Oh, he was there, he was there and he just passed away last year, wow.

Speaker 1:

But the last time I went to lunch with him was about, oh, a year and a half ago, and he journaled excessively and he was in the bay when it happened. He was on a mine sweeping boat. Oh wow, and he got very emotional talking about it and I've never been there, but as you're talking to me, I'm thinking it's an incredible piece of history, world history how did they commemorate it? And history, world history how did they commemorate it? And what, what did?

Speaker 3:

you take away from it. I could, you know I could let myself get really emotional because I did while I was there. Yeah, but you know, you kind of start off by walking the beaches and and, and you know, Utah and Omaha is where I spent most of my, most of my time, and I literally walked the beaches and my friend Pablo was with me and we both walked the beaches. But it's kind of one of those things that you need to do it by yourself. You don't want somebody walking beside you because there's so many deep thoughts, your thoughts get so deep, and so you're captivated because you're seeing the pillbox where the Germans were, you're seeing where they came in.

Speaker 3:

You know that there's a graveyard right there in the ocean. By the way, there's still gobs of ships and tanks and I forgot what they called them but where they unloaded all the troops and they're sunk. They're still there and they won't let anybody come in and you know, pilfer them or have anything to do with them. But you could imagine, you start imagining what was going on when you get to the pillboxes and understand what coming up that bluff and taking those pillboxes and losing frequently over 50% of the men that were going up there I don't mean every once in a while, just some platoons, I'm talking about lots of them and then to understand how they had to come from the back and also reinforce the inland side and uh, and, and you know, you could, you could literally spend weeks, but but nothing moves.

Speaker 3:

You like the cemetery, you know the american cemetery I did not go to any of the other cemeteries, because the American cemetery was huge and and and it's, and it's. It speaks to. It speaks to everybody when you walk through that cemetery and understand what just happened. We went two days after Biden was there and two days after Macron was there, and because you just, I can't even imagine how many people would have been there. You know so, but trying to understand the war and trying to understand why some cities were saved, some were completely destroyed, some were.

Speaker 3:

You know, there was a lady at Pegasus Bridge and she was about 100 years old. I didn't ask, but Pablo comes back to me and says hey, bill, you're not going to believe this. There's a lady up here at the coffee shop at Pegasus Bridge that grew up here and that she was a child. She was a child during the war and she was telling stories and it was pouring down rain and I was so I'm kind of undercover and because I'm not a coffee drinker so he went and got coffee, so I said I gotta, I gotta go hear her speak. Well, she'd already stopped and uh and. But those stories are all over that region it wasn't that long ago.

Speaker 1:

No it was so to sit at lunch with holt's grandfather and hear stories. It's just not that long ago, right, and you know, frankly, uh, I'm really interested to hear your perspective because, with it not being that long ago, what do we? What do we take from it? What do we learn from it? What do you, what have you, what have you learned? Now, a guy that the only guy I know in my life that's that's truly had the privilege and the desire and drive to go really see this stuff firsthand, you're pretty unique in that. What do we learn? What do we pass on to the next generation from what happened?

Speaker 3:

You know, I think it's how tenuous. We walk such a fine line. And I think we walk a fine line in our personal lives all the time. I think the way I grew up, I could have gone to the right or I could have gone to the left, yeah, and the fine line that I could have walked. But I think as the world, as countries, we walk such a fine line. I mean, look what's going on right now with Israel and Palestine. Look what's going on with Russia and Ukraine. I mean I have sat with the Ukrainian people in Poland and talked to them about the life and how all this happened and what, what could have happened differently.

Speaker 3:

I was on, you know, I was in Estonia, in Tallinn, estonia, 30% of the just a few weeks ago, two or three weeks ago. And in Tallinn, estonia, 30% of the people in Tallinn, right next, you know what is it? 150 miles or something, maybe 200 miles from Moscow, and I'm talking to 30% of the people who were Russian in Estonia and trying to sort out how could this stuff happen and where could it end up going. And it's shocking how tenuous our world is, and I'm not so sure it's any more tenuous than it was 80 years ago, or 400 years ago, or 3,000 years ago, I don't know, as though it's any more tenuous. I just think it's so apparent and it's so in front of us, more so than ever.

Speaker 1:

Does that make you, when you lay in bed at night with your own thoughts and you think of the world and you think of your life and where we sit and how privileged we are to be in this country? And what does that mean, bill? What do we do to make this a better place and what do we do to grow and learn from it? Or is it just human nature that it's been going on forever, that people you know they're bad people, that just it's power, it's money, it's religion, there's differences right that get in and divide us.

Speaker 3:

You know, tommy, I feel as though that we really have to focus on future and we have to commit to future generations. I think we have to commit to what. I don't want to get political stuff going, but not what we want for our tax base or not what we want for loan forgiveness for college. I mean, all those things are an issue. They're an issue to all of us to some degree. It's really about what do we want our grandchildren and our great grandchildren, what? What's our legacy as a country? Not just you know on these personally. They're pretty minor issues when it comes to what's going on in the world, and, and sometimes we get so caught up in such, in all honesty, whether the Democrats do this or the Republicans do this for the next four years so somebody can get elected, so be it. The reality is is what do we want the world? How do we make a contribution to the world as a country that really truly cares about the health and welfare of the world.

Speaker 1:

You know, Jim Risch was on here a couple weeks ago.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I listened to him. By the way, he's great and one of the things he said about.

Speaker 1:

If you live in another country, every day you think about what this country is doing because of its influence on the rest of the world. Do you agree with that?

Speaker 3:

Well, it's kind of interesting because I have on. First of all, they see my motorcycle in other countries and it's always where's Idaho, you know, because it's an Idaho plate.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, which is cool in itself by the way it's pretty fun because it gets a lot of attention. At the same time, whether it's a backpack or a piece of luggage, I try to put an American flag on everything I can, and so I get a lot of comments, and the comments are always about tell me about America, tell me what's going on. What's going on with your election? They know our election system. They know what's going on right now. They want to know about gun control. They want to know about health care. You know, here I am trying to set up an arrangement where I can get a conversation going about their politics, their religions, their cultures. Those are the kind of conversations that I would like to have. They're initiating the conversation with me and with some of the people I travel with, and they're curious. They are counting, they meaning the world is counting on the United States doing the right thing at the right time. Critical right oh, it's huge, it's a big deal.

Speaker 1:

Um, I'm going to go back. I was going to ask you, and I don't know what the answer to this will be. Um, I uh read a book recently about Hitler's drug use. Oh yeah.

Speaker 3:

And it's a fascinating.

Speaker 1:

It's a fascinating take um on on how that influenced him. Um, you have studied the war. What led up to the war, post-war, like you said, you visited these camps. What do you think most people don't understand about him and how we got there, because it wasn't that long ago, yeah I think, I think that he it.

Speaker 3:

I think it goes back and I didn't quite understand this until I experienced it, but it goes back well before 1939 or 1940. And it really kind of the bitterness that was felt from World War I, the Treaty of Versailles, and he found an opening to this bitterness. He found an opening to people that felt compromised. He found an opening to people that felt compromised. Now, I sure don't want to come off like an expert in any way, shape or form, because I am not an expert on this topic, but I do know that when there's that type of frustration, you know, and that type if people feel that compromised, and he figured out a way to make that happen. And you've got to share the book with me because that sounds like one that I would really consume.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and so there was that disenfranchisement of everyone. He rallied around it, and then it was propaganda, right, right. Then it was. Once I get you thinking that I'm the solution, now I'm going to feed you what I want to. The way he manipulated that, I think, is it's a study.

Speaker 3:

Oh, exactly, you know, I can't remember. This is really bad. See, here's the problem when you do this kind of travel, if you're not careful, it all starts running together. And so right now but there is somebody that's listening will know this but there is an auditorium that he built in Germany and they built it just strictly so he could give speeches.

Speaker 3:

And I remember walking around. I just somebody told me about it and I went to it. I remember walking forever, but just somebody told me about it and I went to it. I remember walking forever, but I can't remember which city it was, but anyway, and I walked around that this massive Coliseum, like I mean, it was massive. I forgot how many people it held and I walked around it and I could imagine him preaching, or you know, doing one of his Colosseum events, about how compromised the German people were by the Jews, by everybody, everybody. It just so happened that the Jewish people caught the initial inflection and most of the challenge of his unbelievable I can't even explain how much I can't believe anybody could do something like this, but it happened, it happened and it's happened. He's not the only one in history, oh, I mean, it's happened a lot in history and from your travels you've probably been.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I just think of your visits to Africa and your visits to I mean there's lots of examples of this genocide. That happens that you know that we don't talk as much about right, right, right. It still goes on today, right?

Speaker 3:

Well, I think so. I mean, human trafficking alone is still way beyond what anybody understands. That's happening, and it's happening at huge levels I'm talking about. You might say, oh, a million people is a lot of people, it's a statistic. It's 3 million people, it's 4 million people. I mean how many people that are being subjugated to human trafficking or ultimately to some type of persecution? I mean there's a lot that happens in this world that none of us totally can. You don't know. You can read about it, you know. I used to tell people I mean so you read National Geographic. I don't want to get this stuff from national geographic, I want to get it from being there in person can we go back to ukraine because?

Speaker 1:

I know so. So it's interesting that war and what's going on, because there's been a recent offensive that's been by ukraine, right, that's right they're doing well and what. What do you think happens there on the world stage?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I don't know. You know there was, I have to admit there was a point that I thought, well, we've got to just find the compromise, and I mean you know, and, but I'm telling you the Ukrainian people and the way the NATO countries are supporting the Ukrainian people. And it was really interesting when, especially in the Baltic countries, well, sweden and Finland, all those countries, if you stopped and said anything about the Ukrainian war and the Russians, they were all in. I mean, they are all in. But again they're looking at the United States to be all in and we still are.

Speaker 3:

But listen, to think that this recent offensive by the Ukrainians to get into Russia, part of me goes, oh man, I wonder what the retaliatory effect will be. And part of me wonders maybe this is a turning point, Maybe this is a point of inflection that could make a big difference. I don't know. But you know the people I got to spend more time in Estonia than any place because it's a phenomenal country. And I will tell you, the people in Estonia they think the war will go on for quite some time. They do, yeah, they do not think there's a quick end to it.

Speaker 1:

You think about how I don't know you think how much that's costing. I know that's a concern that a lot of people have. I don't know you think how much that's costing. I know that's a concern that a lot of people have. But you listen to Jim talk about, hey, we've got an obligation because of the nuclear disarmament that happened and just the moral standing up to Putin kind of thing, and it's a tricky one. I'm going to change the subject again.

Speaker 3:

You have a little known facts on your. Instagram. Yeah, it's kind of fun. Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, do you, I do, I love it it's kind of silly, but I have fun with it. Yeah, so little known facts and and um so, on this trip I'm gonna so sweden, finland, estonia, latvia, lithuania, germany, poland, czechoslovakia, slovvakia, hungary, austria, italy, switzerland and I probably missed one or two Norway, norway, denmark. Yeah, Norway and Denmark. What are some little known facts for those of us that just live our lives vicariously through Bill Whitaker?

Speaker 3:

Well, I think one of the things that just blew me away because I'd never been to Norway is over 1,000 tunnels. And to think that there's 1,000 tunnels. They don't build highways up and over a mountain, they build tunnels. And I was totally amazed about how you didn't see police cars. You didn't see police motorcyclists I shouldn't say any, but rarely would you see any but they had cameras every place and those cameras were always taking pictures of license plates.

Speaker 2:

They they wouldn't have had any idea what to do with my license plate.

Speaker 1:

That's how they slow you down. Who's that guy from Idaho?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's right, and one of the guys that I was traveling with was he actually got picked up. But they did have a radar on him and they did pick him up. They had no idea what to do. How does he pay? What do we do with him?

Speaker 3:

He has a California plate, but the point is there seems to be a certain amount of I don't know if it's honesty bicycles in Denmark. There's bicycles every place. They don't lock them up. Nice bicycles and you go by and you go. Why don't they lock these bicycles up? They don't lock the bicycles up.

Speaker 3:

But there's little things. Gas stations that's a frustration because you don't exactly know how to pay. You know frequently gas stations. You fill up your tank and then you go in and pay. As an example, there's little things like trying to get a napkin out of some of these places. They'll give you a little bitty napkin, little things like that, and I get a kick out of it. The other thing I do frequently on my website is random observations, and I have a lot of fun. This is just an observation about you know, and I can tell you about the people, their spirit, their attitude, how they, you know, like Norwegians, are unbelievably wonderful and pleasant. The Estonians were really unbelievable. The Lithuanians, you know, they were great. The Latvians were great, I mean, but they're great in different ways. They have uniquenesses and they have their kind of own way, but their pride, their culture, their hopes and their dreams it's just like us. You know, we're all kind of the same fundamentally.

Speaker 3:

Wow, how was finland finland was, uh, actually a pretty wonderful country. It's heavily wooded and someone on his mission there. I don't know if you know, yeah, I did know you spent two years. That's right he liked it. I bet finish. You know he loved. Oh, he said it was cold and dark for most of it right, but uh, and he said, finish, uh, I.

Speaker 1:

And he said Finnish. I was asking because it's supposed to be after Navajo. It's one of the hardest languages to learn. He learned it pretty well, but I said, how did it go? And he's like well, it's more like math. He said as soon as you realize in your brain that it's more math than it is, then I'm like hey, I'm more smart enough to think. But he loved it there and loved the people. But they've got a long history with Russia.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, they have a long history and also them coming into NATO is a pretty big deal. It's a big deal, right? Yeah, and I can't even imagine that those things are controversial in any way.

Speaker 1:

Shape or form. I thought Jim's story was hilarious, right? They were always scared to come in, oh yeah, afraid of, like, what Russia would do. And then, as soon as they invaded the UK, they're like hey, we're in. No, that's right.

Speaker 3:

You know, I think it's a. The cool thing about Finland is I didn't have to worry about the language because they almost all speak English, I mean. But you see that a lot in particularly Scandinavian countries, lots of English was. I mean literally, especially if you get like 30 years old and younger. They probably learned English in school. But Finland is. It's actually. It's beautiful, it's pretty flat and for riding a motorcycle it's not very interesting and it's hard to find anything that's not already paved, because I still like the dirty stuff.

Speaker 1:

So how many miles was this last trip?

Speaker 3:

uh, nine thousand, yeah, nine thousand is probably. It's not my, uh it's, it wouldn't be my favorite thing to do and I and it's not really. Um, you know, I won't go, try to do one of those kind of trips again, you won't. Yeah, I mean, I have a theory that, and my theory is I don't want to go where tour buses go.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

I don't, first of all for the crowds and second of all because they're on pavement, and so I try to stay in more unique and remote places. It'll pop. It's just hard in scandinavia or any place in europe. So what is next?

Speaker 1:

I haven't asked you that either. Well, I don't know.

Speaker 3:

There's always something next well, I, you know, I've, I've, I've done, I've, I've, I've sort of done the big four, and, and that is the Nordkapp of Norway, that.

Speaker 3:

I just finished and it, by the way, is spectacular. I've done Cape Agulhas in South Africa. That's the furthest landmass in South Africa, ushuaia is the furthest landmass in South America, and I've actually done it four times. I don't know why, but it's just still a thrill. I probably won't do it again. And then I've done Alaska to the Arctic Circle. I've been to Alaska a number of times, but now I probably need to go back and go all the way up to the Arctic Ocean and to Peruto Bay, and I'll probably, you know, fit that in.

Speaker 3:

Simply, that won't be a big trip I need to go back to. It's really important for me to get to western Africa the eastern Africa was spectacular and at least go down to Namibia. I came up the west side initially and then cut across from Namibia back over to Tanzania and Malawi, and then cut across from Namibia back over to Tanzania and Malawi and then on up. And then we couldn't get through Ethiopia because of the revolution and so had to fly over to Cairo or to Egypt. But I think, listen, I've got to go back into the dirt someplace. I've got to get remote.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and we're talking today about all this international travel because you just got back but you've done a lot with your back roads.

Speaker 3:

Backcountry Discovery Routes. Backcountry Discovery Routes here.

Speaker 1:

I love that organization and mapping and setting all these things up in a bunch of states, right?

Speaker 3:

Yeah well, so I'm part of the Backcountry Discovery Routes and it's actually a national not-for-profit that's designed to help people travel in the backcountry in a more organized fashion, because you can get in trouble in a hurry with whether it's fuel or food or just somebody getting hurt or whatever. And I love the organization and in fact I think let's see this weekend I will do go do some scouting this weekend in the Hells Canyon region. It depends on the fire, the limelight fire is still going.

Speaker 1:

We flew over it yesterday. Oh you did, and it was yeah, it's still going.

Speaker 3:

It's only 60% contained right now and I think it's 30-some thousand acres or something. But I think if I stayed on the Oregon side I can get a lot of that done.

Speaker 1:

Hey, a couple other questions I had for you. What's food like on all these trips? What?

Speaker 3:

do you?

Speaker 1:

try to do and what's ideal.

Speaker 3:

What do you try to do and what's ideal and what? Any time you see Oreos in a store, you buy them, no matter what. You just buy them because that's your inventory. But no, I mean some of it.

Speaker 1:

You know the best things about Oreos. Yeah, what's that? I was laughing when I had my open-heart surgery. Yeah, right Afterwards I was really serious and I hired a dietician and she's like the way you reverse this is to become a vegan. And I sat down and it was meal prep and I did it for about six months. But about a month into it and I lost weight. For about a month I found out that Oreos are vegan. Then I gained like 20 pounds. They're also synthetic, so you can have almond milk and Oreos and you're totally fine.

Speaker 3:

Anyway, it's funny that that's the first thing you bring up is Oreos, oh God, that's perfect. Well so, but no, food is always an issue, but it's part of the culture. Yeah, it's the Anthony Bourdain thing where understanding how people eat, how they prepare their food, why food is so important to them, how cultures operate around food, and so you kind of have to do it. I was in. So give us a food story off this last trip.

Speaker 3:

Well, the last trip in Spain, my friend Pablo In Spain, my friend Pablo, and he said, well, we're going to have some type of pig. And I said, okay, I'm in. He said it's really famous for this region and we're going to have pig. And I said, okay, I'm all in. Well, it was a suckling pig, I mean like a little baby pig. And I watched them with a plate, another plate, chop the pig up. And I'm going I'm serious, pablo, are we really going to do this? He says, oh, yeah, yeah, you're really going to like it and it actually was good and you had to be part of the culture If you don't do it. But that was just like off the charts.

Speaker 3:

They, they make fun of me all the time because every place I go, I look for pizza and spaghetti bolognese, because that can be safe yeah you know, but no, you have to eat, you have to participate in the culture, the food culture tell us about pablo and tell us about your writing mates, because it's been years of kind of similar guys, right yeah. Yeah, well, I think so, Pablo's. Just, I love this guy. He's from Argentina and he came over as a tech specialist.

Speaker 1:

Is that?

Speaker 2:

him there.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's Pablo, and that's us actually on the East Coast writing last fall. But anyway, he lives in Miami and he actually designs really sophisticated tech systems for commercial aircraft. He owns his company and he so if you're participating in an entertainment center on the back of an aircraft, he's the one that does that, and so he's a really good friend of mine and a really important guy. I traveled with a guy this last time named Arpad Sho. He actually is Hungarian and was raised in Romania and then somehow got to the United States and escaped, you know, all the persecution that was happening in Eastern Europe and he lives in Pismo Beach and he has assisted living facilities that he, you know, owns and operates. And he what a traveler, I mean he is hardcore. What a traveler, I mean he is hardcore, and so he's super.

Speaker 3:

The most recent we had a guy with us Jim Hyde is a really good friend of mine and he is a trainer. He trains people how to ride off-road motorcycles out of California and Colorado. So he has a couple training schools and he was with us for a couple weeks. So people drop in and out.

Speaker 1:

They drop in and out during the thing.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and sometimes you get somebody that might stay. You know, a lot of people don't want to come in for a month or two months or even longer sometimes, and so you get people to drop in and out and I love it. And sometimes you're by yourself and being by yourself is you know this it actually is kind of cool. It's a different type of introspection. When you're traveling by yourself it's never scary. Oh, there are times when you're kind of you can imagine that your heart rate goes up a little bit, but I, I think it's.

Speaker 3:

You know, there's been a couple times, like going from Kyrgyzstan into western China in the Uyghur remember from the well still going on the Uyghur persecution with China and trying to get in very remote border crossing very remote there were. There was a handful of us. That was, we were crossing into China and, and I'll never forget, they wanted our phones and they wanted our passcodes on the phones. You know what they were going to do. They were going to download a tracking device or something like that. I wouldn't do it. I said I'm not going to do this, were going to download a tracking device or something like that, and I wouldn't do it.

Speaker 3:

I decided I'm not going to do this. So I kind of hung out in the back Everybody's handing their phones over and I'm kind of going. I don't think I'm going to do this Next thing. I know they take me to a back room and I'm going. Oh man, I wonder what this means. And it all went. It was all kind of contentious at first and there was an English-speaking supervisor and all of a sudden he said you're on a work visa, not a visitor, you know tourist visa. And I said yeah, because I work here some. And he says what's your work? And I said I make French fries for McDonald's.

Speaker 1:

You know being at.

Speaker 3:

Simplot and I wasn't at Simplot. No, I wasn't at the time and that's after I'd already retired. But the point is, all of a sudden he was my best friend and we had to take pictures and we did all kinds of cool stuff.

Speaker 1:

The French fry guys here, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

That's what he was doing. He was telling people and and he said do you know where all the the mcdonald's are in beijing? And I said, no, but I'll tell you where our plant is. And anyway, he was. But it was but little things like that you get into in tajikistan, at harag, tajikistan. Uh, we were right on the border of Afghanistan, I mean literally right on the border, and the hotel clerk in English said do not cross that border because there's a bounty on Americans. And I said seriously, and he said no, do not cross that border. And we'd we'd been riding along, you know, the border of Afghanistan for probably two days. You know, and I kept it.

Speaker 3:

But what, what a contrast from Afghanistan to Tajikistan or Afghanistan to Uzbekistan. And the contrast is unbelievable. How people live a different life, and that's why I do this, tommy. It changes you. Nothing is ever black and white again. It literally changes the way you view the world and if you wanna come in with a black and white perspective, it'll get blown up so quickly. And now you know, and this is all about gaining perspective.

Speaker 1:

It's so amazing, though, bill, in today's world because everyone, like right now, populism, is black and white. I know Everything is Everything's like. You say this or believe that I don't like you because I like this, whatever, I hate it, and what you're saying is so powerful that, by seeing the world differently, you see that it's not black and white with the Maasai tribal leaders in Kenya and get to visit with them, and you go in with this attitude of how do the?

Speaker 3:

you know the multiple wives and the way they live and and the and? Well, I can go on and on about circumstances with with these tribal leaders. But then when you get, then when you literally visit with them and talk to them, and you got to remember you're going through an interpreter and you don't know exactly what the interpreter is always saying or doing, and uh, and then all of a sudden you kind of go huh, yeah, okay, I kind of get it. Don't totally get it. There's things that I am absolutely against. But the point is is if you stop and gain all the perspective you can. So I have a little byline on my along the way site is perspective on purpose? I mean, I want to purposefully go gain perspective. I love that and not necessarily. You know, some people might call wisdom, maybe it is. Listen, I never thought of myself as gaining wisdom, but trying to get perspective, trying to just gain it every place I can, you know, when I'm traveling you know when I'm traveling.

Speaker 1:

Well, and I think the beauty is your motives to share that have been so pure and it's awesome for the rest of us that get to follow along. I didn't ask you perspective on Israel and the current conflict with Iran and Hamas and kind of what any. I know you've studied, been through that area before too. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3:

Well, I was, of course, like all of us. I was devastated to even imagine that this happened October 7th, yeah, october 7th. So here we are. We're coming up to a year yeah, yeah, and, and, and, and. I think the reaction was initially exactly the reaction that Israel should have, and I think our reaction to support Israel was exactly the right way. I think it's pretty hard when we talk about one state solution one-state solution, I mean talk about some of the issues. So we have things that are fundamentally contrary to what Israel has, and particularly the way they are going in and just, I mean, in all honesty, killing off people. I don't like it, and I think that if we're going to support them, we need to say we will do this, but you have to do this. I think we have to have more influence, or make sure they feel that we are not going to just openly support anything you want to do. Looking for some conclusion right Well.

Speaker 3:

I think so, and I don't know what the I mean. The conclusion is really hard to get to Listen. We haven't gotten to it for lots and lots and lots of years. I have no idea what the years are. Now that gives me something. That's my curiosity. Now figure out. I wonder how many years this has really been going on. It's a long time, a long time, a long time.

Speaker 1:

Well, and you look at that region and just the religious significance for so many different people at one location and I mean it's a hotbed and always will be Right as long as people. It's just. It's interesting. You know, sometimes it gets overwhelming as we try to just live our lives and raise our families. But all this stuff's important.

Speaker 3:

I think, yeah, and I think we have to look at Hamas is one thing and Palestinian people or another thing, and I know that it gets really cloudy in the middle. Listen, I'm not. I'm not totally naive on how probably that country is working, because I have not been to that country. On the other hand, israel I think it's really going to be interesting to see if Netanyahu can continue the support from his own people. But we'll see. He's starting to lose support around the world in a pretty significant way, but I don't know where this is going to end up.

Speaker 1:

It really bothers me yeah, well, and and and, back to kind of this. Our time's going so quickly. But going back to where we started with like the I was just thinking like so poppy jane, born yesterday yeah, her name.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's really cool oh my gosh, that's great.

Speaker 1:

So my grandpa that I've told you about before, he's like my absolute hero. He went by Poppy, he was Poppy.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And so my daughter's always said if I have a daughter, I'm naming her Poppy. And so, yeah, it's Poppy Jane. But you think of her when she's my age, our age. You think of her when she's my age, our age. I mean, what's the world going to be if we don't have some thought leaders and some humanity and something figuring? We've got so many things challenging us on so many levels. No, we do. It can be overwhelming, but you've got to believe in people.

Speaker 1:

You've got to believe in commonalities, in people and leave us with some words of like wisdom here. Leave us with some optimism.

Speaker 3:

Well, you know, listen, and you go back and listen.

Speaker 3:

I don't want to make it sound like I was a student of the Federalist Papers, but when you get into understanding what happened to the founding of our country and the fact that the great words of you know that democracy is an experiment but you know we're all kind of experiments I mean, our day-to-day life is to some degree an experiment, what we're experiencing.

Speaker 3:

But I had somebody that man, it's been quite a few years ago said, bill, do you want to be clever or do you want to be wise? And I said, well, it's so complicated, it sounds like a trick question, and I think being wise and if you don't do anything with it it doesn't really matter, but being clever and making sure that you can, kind of, what does it look on the other side of the mountain? What does it look like around the corner? How can we help create the world of the future? How can, how can we imagine where the world should go, or I should go, or our business should go, or whatever. And I think, um, I, I think that I think, to some degree I spent a lot of time being clever and I and I the word kind of bothers me. Just it sounds manipulative, but in with the complexities of it, it actually really works.

Speaker 1:

It does work, I love that what's on the other side of the mountain. I mean, I think what you've taught me, to be honest, more than anyone in my lifetime is this idea of perspective and this deep hunger I think it is a hunger for you of I'm going to gain as much perspective on this world as I can and I'm going to share it with others. It comes from a great place.

Speaker 3:

I think if you don't share it with others and I think doing something like this David Kunkannon lives in Haley, idaho. He's very much a part of the Explorers, the big Explorers Club, and David has a saying he said if you're an adventurer and all that you do is go out and come back and say, look what I've done, what the heck? That's pretty self-indulgent. If you're an explorer and you come back and say this is what I've learned and I just want to share it with you and I think that's where I am and I think that moves me into you gain wisdom by experiences. I don't think you gain wisdom from books. I don't think you gain wisdom from technical schools or medical schools or whatever. I think you gain it by experience and I think perspective is part of that experience.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think it's a simplistic thing that whole living life arrows out versus arrows in. It's not about me. It's about what I'm gaining and then what I'm sharing. Right, that's what you take into these journeys and it's what makes them so dang powerful when you come back and share. Yeah, I think so. And thanks for catching up with us Well thank you for doing this.

Speaker 3:

You know I won't say I catch them all, but I've caught a lot of these podcasts and I really enjoy it, and you have some speakers that just blow me away.

Speaker 1:

You blow me away, I appreciate you buddy.

Speaker 3:

Thank you I appreciate you, buddy.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, I appreciate you. Thank you, I'm glad you're safe.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thanks, we'll be back at lunch at Jalapeno soon, right?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, for sure, catch up on everything else. Count on it. Thanks, buddy. Thanks for coming on, okay, thanks.