Ever Onward Podcast

Transform Your Health: Insider Secrets to Wellness with Meg Lane - Ep. 38

• Ahlquist. • Season 1 • Episode 38

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Get ready to supercharge your health with this must-listen episode! We’re thrilled to have Meg Lane, the trailblazing founder of Paragond, sharing her game-changing journey from traditional medicine to a groundbreaking, holistic approach that’s shaking up the health world. If you’re looking for real, actionable tips to transform your well-being, this is the episode for you.

Meg pulls back the curtain on the secret weapons of wellness—from mastering your sleep and balancing hormones to unlocking the hidden power of nutritional supplements. But we don’t stop there. We’re diving into hot-button topics like the shocking truth about the American diet and the explosive rise of GLP-1 medications for weight loss.

Want to know how to achieve life-changing results with personalized care? Tune in for expert advice, eye-opening revelations, and powerful strategies that could redefine your health and well-being. This episode is packed with the insider knowledge you’ve been waiting for!

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Speaker 1:

Today on the Ever Onward podcast, we have Meg Lane. She is an Idaho native who runs a health care clinic here called Paragon Health. It is an amazing health care clinic that helps people with wellness, mental, physical and emotional health. It's going to be really fun to have her on and talk about all the trends in health care and medicine right now and ways that we can be healthier and live more of a balanced life. Prior to having Meg on today, we're going to hear from Mark Cleverley, one of our partners here, who leads our leasing department, and get an update on what's going on with business here. So first, mark Cleverley. Hey, this week on the AllQuist Update, we have Mark Cleverley and I'm excited to talk to you about this week's topic. We have a building 4th and Idaho downtown. We've been working on and you're already starting to get a lot of traction on the office side. But, uniquely, most office space that we've ever done well anywhere, but especially downtown, has been for lease, but you have units that are for sale down there.

Speaker 2:

We do. We thought it'd be really good. You go into downtown and there's not a lot to buy, right? I mean, there's a lot of space to lease, especially in a new high-rise 13, 14-story building and there's more opportunities out in the suburbs to go buy. If you want a 5,000 square foot little space, you can go buy a little building, a little toadstool building.

Speaker 2:

Downtown it doesn't exist and I think, as we were planning this, I I mean it was going to be for lease product, but we thought why in the world we're missing an entire component of downtown and that's the for sale product, and so the building's condoed, we can go in and we can sell a 5 000 square foot unit, we can sell 10, we can sell a whole floor to another user. We've already received an loi from a group that wants to buy, uh right, a little small 5 000 square foot tenant, but they want to own their real estate and they want to be downtown and there's really not a lot of places to go and for the purposes of this update, um, we're, you know, you're just getting out there now we're just starting marketing on it.

Speaker 1:

It's just hitting the market. So, um, if anyone listening needs an office condo unit to own long-term downtown contact you. And again, it's divisible in different sizes and we're really excited to provide this because we haven't done it before yeah, haven't done it and I think it's going to be really successful.

Speaker 1:

I think it's going to be great. A little bit about fourth night. Oh again, location is absolutely killer. Right, yeah, right at fourth now, or just an idaho, just a block from kind of the core of downtown, uh, close to st luke's, block from st luke's, so we got a real neighborhood feel to it. It'll be a great place to come and go, parking structures attached, so a lot of great uh benefits of being great parking for a downtown building, on-site parking that they don't have to go find a garage.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, a lot of, a lot of great benefits. So I we don't mention this a lot, but contact Mark, your info is all over everything and you've got a team you and Holt and Kakoa and take good care of people if they're looking for office. Yep, absolutely, thanks, buddy. Thanks man. Okay, mag Lane, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 3:

Thank you, Tommy.

Speaker 1:

We've been trying to get you on for a while.

Speaker 3:

I know yeah.

Speaker 1:

Did I cancel or did you cancel Both? Yeah, all the above.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Well, it's really good to have you on. Yeah, I've known you for a while and you do great things, and so we got lots of different topics, but we don't do much health care.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's what I understand.

Speaker 1:

So I think a few episodes ago I had one of my old partners in the ER on, but we haven't done any cool like trendy health care stuff. So this will be fun today. Absolutely Tell me a little bit about you before we get started so the audience knows who you are and how you train. But you've done a lot of great things.

Speaker 3:

Well, thank you. You know I'm born and raised in Idaho. All of my education is here. I went to Boise State, idaho State, so I'm a physician assistant, graduated in 2012. So my journey has been a little bit all over the place. I've done a lot of surgical subspecialties neurosurgery, orthopedics, trauma and most recently was rheumatology, so practicing autoimmune diseases and treating those during the pandemic, which was incredibly interesting given the nature of the vaccinations and the medications that we prescribed at that time. So, and then fast forward. You entered my life and we went on an adventure and, as you know, that adventure kind of shifted.

Speaker 1:

Ended in Paragon.

Speaker 3:

That's right. It became Paragon and that was founded in 2022. And it was the first time in my life that I got to decide what kind of medicine I wanted to practice and um so before we move on, I want to make sure.

Speaker 1:

So like, uh, like I'm an ER doc, so I'm kind of like the Mr Trenches black and white, whatever Right. But you were in very traditional, like I don't know, rheumatology is probably about as complicated. Like I don't know, rheumatology is probably about as complicated, yes, like if you think of like of all of the specialties, it's a super detailed, complicated organ system, every organ system, kind of how are autoimmune diseases affecting the body and how do you take care of people? Lots of surgical stuff too. But your core was kind of there. So it's been interesting when you get to the point of hey, I'm going to do whatever I want to do.

Speaker 1:

It's been really cool to watch what you've decided, so that's a good segue into your current clinic, which is here in Meridian off of Overland Road, and what's your website, in case someone wants to look it up?

Speaker 3:

It's just paragonco, okay.

Speaker 1:

So paragon, p-a-r-a-g-o-n-d, dot C-O, and we're pulling that up. Here's the website, and so your tagline a premier medical clinic specializing in you, correct. So this is cool.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think it's.

Speaker 3:

You know, as I thought about this well, I actually haven't really thought about a lot it's been more of a reactionary clinic in that, you know, it started kind of in a primary care realm but as patients came in, you know, they started asking all these questions and it's like you know, I don't know the answer to that, but let me find out.

Speaker 3:

And what I found was is we had, you know, some disparities women with hormones and just health optimization. I was tired of treating the after-the-fact disease and I wanted to prevent the disease, and so and I really want people to feel and look their best that's like everybody's tagline, it seems anymore, but it's, you know, I think it starts on the inside. If we're not sound on the inside, we're not going to look very good. So you can do all the toxin and fillers you want and, you know, try to help it, but at the end of the day, you're still not doing yourself any justice. And so, as I've grown and educated and everything, what I have found is it's really about the whole entire person. And now that I've kind of seen the light, so to speak, I look back on the last several years of my career and I'm like oh man, if only I knew then what I know now.

Speaker 1:

That's what I want to get into today. I do believe in the. I mean, this is probably a hyperbole and an overstatement, but I do think in our world, in healthcare. I think COVID, I think there's a lot of things going on in healthcare and I think this more holistic approach to mind like the brain is an organ just like the heart.

Speaker 3:

Exactly.

Speaker 1:

And you better get that set.

Speaker 3:

Yep.

Speaker 1:

This focus on hormones and how it relates to everything in your life, whether it be cortisol or estrogen or testosterone or whatever I think it's. I think it's really and and you know, I know we listened to a lot of the same podcasts but there's a lot of people that are just out there looking for ways to feel better mentally, physically, spiritually, all the above and kind of live their best life, and that's kind of where you settled. So let's talk about, like, different areas. Well, can we, before we go there, yeah, traditional healthcare is hard. Yeah, right, I mean just like being an entrepreneur and starting a new clinic and just the regulation that came.

Speaker 1:

So you go back to when I started in medicine in the 90s, right, and how simple kind of a doctor patient relationship was and really how simple insurance was, billing, was, coding, was everything Right. And then you had and listen, I don't want to bash on Obamacare too much, but I think you had this magical time where everyone's like, hey, something has to be done with healthcare by not going kind of fully socialized and kind of just making this bureaucracy at the government level called Obamacare. Um, it basically created a bunch of in between industries, um, pbms, um, you look at the, the just everything that surrounds healthcare now and what's between a doctor and a patient now compared to what it was 25 years ago, and it's just unbelievably complicated.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

And it's and it's. And the thing that I always tell people is, if you had you know, back in the day you were my doctor and I have chickens and have eggs, and you take care of me and I give you eggs, and then it went to money and then it went to insurance, but it was still like I'm going to see you, I'm going to charge you $150 for a visit, $200 for a visit and I'm going to pay you. The number of people that get a cut of that 150 to $200 now, compared to what it was 25 years ago, is crazy.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And if you've ever seen the math on that for anyone watching, you can go to multiple different sources and it's just crazy. So take on top of that billing and coding and insurance and not insurance, and just it's really hard right now. Right, so talk about your choice, because I think you're going to a different model now where you're like, hey, there's people that are just going around the traditional systems and just paying for primary care and wellness.

Speaker 3:

Right, yeah, that's been the shift. You know, and I think you know, my whole career has been insurance-based care and you know, I just I worked, I went in, I did my job and I left, and so now that I have a practice, it really changed my perception of where the money goes. How is it coming in all those things? And, yeah, the regulations just will kill any practice. To be honest with you, unless you have all of the employees and the billers and all these people, I mean, you have to have a biller that's in between you, and then you have all these systems and logins, and I already have enough logins, I don't need more of those.

Speaker 3:

And so the other thing is people don't understand what it means to use insurance. So you might see your provider for five or 10 minutes, but they're billing like three to $400 for that five to 10 minutes, because all the time around that 5 to 10 minutes can also be billed for, and so that's what inevitably is driving up costs, right? Amen, yeah, and so the difference between that and a cash-based practice is I personally charge for my face-to-face time with a patient. The patient will never pay for anything that occurs around that appointment, which includes text messaging and contact things like that, and I think that's a piece that gets missed. Also, how much care can you render in five to 10 minutes? I you know what do you think? How would you know? When I was in rheumatology I had 20 minutes initially like 20 to 30 minutes for a new patient evaluation and to tell someone I wanted to put them on chronic immunosuppressants such as equivalent to a chemotherapeutic in 30 minutes. It was hard.

Speaker 1:

With a complicated medical history, on a drug that costs an ungodly amount of money. Absolutely I mean you look at. You look at just the way we have, how we have evolved.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

I mean, you look at you look at just the way we have, how we have evolved it honestly is nonsensical in so many different ways.

Speaker 3:

And.

Speaker 1:

I think patients feel that now too.

Speaker 3:

Oh, a hundred percent, because they're frustrated. They're like well, I paid my copay and I just got $150 bill, and so that's also the difference. I mean, there are some, there were some laws that came out that said that you know, we, as practices or providers, need to make sure patients know exactly how much they're going to pay. But in order to do that, I mean insurances can change it on a whim so you never know what they're going to cover. And so then you know, patients are now having to become their own advocates and basically know their. Well, they should know their policies through and through. But, um, it's a lot of jargon that people just don't know about.

Speaker 3:

It's hard to understand right, I don't understand it.

Speaker 1:

So so, as you've shifted, have you found, have you liked it better? Oh and, and talk about just the your job satisfaction.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I would say this is um, I wanted to leave medicine before I started with you, and if it weren't for this practice, I probably wouldn't be in medicine anymore, because I truly went to school to take care of patients. I was going to go to medical school and I really kind of broke it down for myself what's the difference? Would I be able to accomplish the same thing? And I told myself, yes, I could get there in two years instead of you know, seven, or whatever it may be with medical school. And so what I find with what I do now is I'm truly connecting and caring with my patients, and every patient that I have I know very well. I have a picture of them in my brain and you know it's whenever they come in. It's just like having, it's like having a family almost, and so I've really enjoyed it. It's a small panel of people, but I take the best possible care that I can of each and every one of them. Awesome, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Let's move into some of the things you're you're, you're doing. So I think, uh, I don't know you. You tell me what you want to talk about first. I do think like it when you look at what you're doing now. It is kind of a holistic approach and I would probably break that down to diet and exercise and well-being. Mental health is one.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And weight kind of. You know that's body image, self-image, but it's also health and kind of long-term effects of being overweight Hormone. Another big thing, sexual health, which is like our ratings will go up on our podcast but no one talks about because it's like so embarrassing, right yeah, but you're hitting all of those things, right. So which one do you want to start?

Speaker 3:

on. I think, just starting with just the pillars of life, the basics that so many of us have forgotten about, that are just so critical. Something as simple as sleeping or going out into the sun in the morning, you know polar plunges all this stuff is really coming out. It's like what can you do to take care of yourself? You don't even need a doctor for that, you don't need me to tell you about that.

Speaker 1:

Can we talk about all those?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 1:

Let's start with sleep. Okay, what are kind of your fundamentals of sleep and what do you think people out there should know about sleep? Because I think we are, as I think there's a lot more out there about sleep. The advantages, the disadvantages kind of the techniques, the importance of you know what happens with hormones and the cleansing of your brain at night and all sorts of things. So what are your kind of takeaways with sleep that you would want every listener to hear?

Speaker 3:

It is the absolute, most fundamentally important thing of all of our lives is sleep. If we aren't sleeping, we are a mess in more ways than one. Um, so it's a hormonal regulator, you know. As we know, cortisol is regulated. Cortisol helps regulate sleep, but sleep also helps regulate cortisol. And for people that don't know, cortisol is regulated Cortisol helps regulate sleep, but sleep also helps regulate cortisol. And for people that don't know what cortisol is, it is touted as a stress hormone, even though it has a lot of function. But when we think about abdominal fat or visceral fat around the abdomen, we think cortisol, we think stress and chronic elevation of cortisol Low cortisol is also detrimental.

Speaker 3:

It can make people very tired. So if we're dysregulating those normal rhythms by not getting adequate sleep at a regular interval, you're just putting a wrench in your system. So some of the ways that I think sleep is most optimized is physical activity every day. You don't have to hit the gym for two hours. I mean. That in itself can raise cortisol levels, and so, um, it's really just moderate exercise. Getting your heart rate up to 120, 130, 20 minutes a day Um, that kind of wears you out a little bit. Um, avoiding blue light before you go to sleep.

Speaker 1:

So blue light, that's screens, correct. All screens, all screens, yes, so laying light, that's screens, correct. All screens, all screens yes, so laying in bed for an hour and a half looking at your phone before you go to bed is probably the worst thing you can do.

Speaker 3:

Interesting enough. Iphone has been forward on this, but a lot of it will shift into, you know, the red light spectrum. If you notice your phone becomes orangey, that's because it's going into that spectrum. The other really interesting thing is if you have a light that's high in your bedroom, it mimics the sun and so, primitively, it will trigger um, awakening hormones in your brain, and so it makes it harder to go to sleep.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I was. I'm shocked at how, like I think that hour before bedtime, hormonally, what happens in your body is really important.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So they'll also say like well, can you talk a little bit about the different phenotypes of sleepers? Like some people struggle their whole life because they don't go to bed early and now we're finding you should embrace. If you're like I, go to bed at 10 or 11 every night kind of person, then you're probably not going to go to bed at 9 o'clock, yeah, and so find what kind of sleeper you are and then it's routine and then it's prep and kind of light before you go to sleep, anything else. What else did I?

Speaker 3:

miss. Yeah, so being your phenotype, you know that's a hard thing to work around, right? So if you're like a shift worker and you work like in the ER, if you work midnight or at night sometime in daytime, like shift workers are the most, I mean, they struggle from a health standpoint and you can only do that for so long, right. And so try to work with your phenotype if you can. There are online tests all over the place to really determine your phenotype and that can be kind of help you understand yourself a little bit more. I personally I love to go to bed early and wake up early, so I like to be in bed by eight. I have my process. I have a Kindle, and Kindles the paper whites are graphite, so it's not a blue light or a backlit like an iPad. And so if you just have a normal schedule and you want to stick to that schedule as close as possible, some other things is lowering the temperature in your home, so your body has to drop about 0.5 to 1 degrees to actually sleep soundly.

Speaker 1:

Are you an advocate of these new mattresses?

Speaker 3:

I mean, if it's your jive cool, I mean it's whatever works. And you know, if I say like 100%, I don't know. I whatever works. And you know, if I say like a hundred percent, I don't know. I've actually never slept on one but I do like a cold room.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Cause your body temperature does need to drop. Your the hormonal changes happen an hour before, kind of routine. So what I've? I think the pillars are like same time, um, kind of same routine, same prep and then staying asleep. As we get older it becomes a harder thing. What do you tell your patients on staying asleep?

Speaker 3:

That's actually a really Something odd is happening right now. I have a lot of patients complaining of this exact thing and it's almost kind of becoming a theme, and so I'm curious what's happening in the world right now? I can't quite put my finger on it, but there are those individuals, and sometimes it's just a hormonal optimization. So I find testosterone to be a fantastic sleep aid. I mean, it doesn't matter when you take testosterone, but for some reason it just helps you sleep deeper and longer is what I have found personally and with my patient population. Staying asleep that's a hard one. You want to try to avoid alcohol and sleep aids and things like that that can disrupt your sleep If you've been historically.

Speaker 1:

That's an important thing. Yeah, because a lot of people believe alcohol helps you sleep. It actually destroys your normal 90 minute rhythms and actually you might feel like you're asleep, but you're not going through the normal cycles, right?

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's a big deal. Okay, great. So that's sleep, which is foundational and important. How many hours do you tell your patients they should get?

Speaker 3:

Whatever works for you. I'm an eight hour a night person. Everybody's very different, so there's people out there that can function on four, though I seven's kind of like the normal kind of.

Speaker 1:

If you're getting seven, that's probably pretty good. Okay, great, um, I think I've said this on a podcast before, but I listened to like that.

Speaker 1:

There was like a six-part series on Huberman yeah on and I listened to every minute of it and I followed all their advice and I was so neurotic about my sleep that I couldn't sleep. I mean, this is like. Honestly, I'm like, this is crazy, that I'm like cause I'd lay in bed and think I'm not you know I'm doing this right, or whatever and I woke up and so I've mellowed out a little bit, yeah, and I'm sleeping better now, but okay, sleep is important yes let's talk about cold plunges. Yeah, so that's a really cool.

Speaker 3:

I mean I discovered it on a Huberman. I think Huberman is um such a forward thinker in this space and I I appreciate um the questions he asked the people that he has on his podcast and he has really smart people like world experts on like the gal that came on on the cold plunge thing.

Speaker 1:

She's like savant, right. So. So, um, the the theory behind it, right, is that it it's brown fat, white fat, kind of this whole thing with metabolism, but it's also this concept mentally of overcoming this thing that's not pleasant and getting used to doing that. Um, and then there's a whole bunch of other stuff. I'll let you, I'll let you go here first, but yeah but it can be powerful.

Speaker 3:

It is. I mean, um. Another one is David Goggins. I don't know if you've listened to the David God Goggins podcast, but you know he mentions a lot about when we make ourself do hard things. There's actually a place in our brain that becomes larger. So I think that's really interesting.

Speaker 3:

And what? What do people none of us want to jump into like really cold water. But I think the important thing is I talk a lot about it with people, about mental health and if people are feeling anxious or really kind of spun up all the time, it's supposed to bring you down and it kind of calms the nervous system and polar plunges. You do not have to go jump into an icy lake. You do not have to get an ice bath. If you're really stressed out, you could actually just put your face in a cold bowl of water and you know TV shows always have this where people are putting water on their face. It's kind of that same concept. It kind of breaks this kind of ramped-up cycle that's going on for you, but also just in your shower you can just cool it down. You just want it to be cold enough to where you don't want to be in it, and I think a lot of the data shows like two minutes, but there are people that are doing it six minutes.

Speaker 1:

I think the important caveat how often do you do it?

Speaker 3:

I actually don't polar plunge, don't I want to. It is something, it's something that I would love to do?

Speaker 2:

I thought you were doing it.

Speaker 3:

You know, I my life has been so crazy I can't even, I'm just, I just work all the time and that's my problem.

Speaker 1:

Okay, doctor, heal thyself. Exactly Do as I say, not as I do, that's right, I did it pretty faithfully and I would do well sauna. So the protocol I studied the most was 20-minute sauna, then 3-minute plunge, 20-minute sauna, 3-minute plunge, 20 minute sauna, three minute plunge. I said it wrong. You do, you do three plunges and two saunas and you and you always end on cold and it was great. I, I, uh, I had a little problem cause, you know, I had a little problem.

Speaker 1:

I had a little arrhythmia, I went into a flutter and they told me not to do it for a while. Um, but I think I'm almost released from that to do it again, but I felt great. I felt better than I have in a long, long, long time. I think it must do something for inflammation too, I think, just like mentally inflammation and everything else. Um, before we get off that sauna, where does that fit in your?

Speaker 3:

I think they're great. I mean most of that um I have patients talk to me about because you know they're followers of Huberman and he's a big proponent of the sauna, red light therapy, polar plunge combo. I personally haven't really dove into the data but I, you know I'm one of those people that if it helps, do it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Even if there's no data, do it yeah.

Speaker 1:

Even if there's no data. Well, and one of the things I've thought of is like you know I think when you're going really hard, really fast, all of the time, like being intentional, and like sitting in a quiet sauna with some like eucalyptus oil on your sauna and like just thinking for 20 minutes in two sessions so 40 minutes that probably already has a tremendous benefit for just meditation and quieting yourself and so so how much of the percentages, the physical effects of capillaries and everything else, how much of it is mental, it kind of doesn't matter, right?

Speaker 1:

Nope, as long as it's helping you and you're feeling better about it, okay, great.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So we hit sleep, we hit um kind of the cold cold therapy. Want to talk about hormones. This is like something you're all over.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think hormonal optimization, or a consideration for at the very least, is really important for most people At any age men, women I'm seeing men, younger and younger, with incredibly low testosterone. I don't quite know why Are we more?

Speaker 1:

sedentary. There's a lot of theories on that by the way. Yeah, I'm not sure why, but it's like I think it's a fact now in America, like you know, it's just happening right.

Speaker 3:

Processed food, being sedentary, not building muscle mass, people are. You know, our lifestyles have shifted so much, and so the basics are, though, all of these hormones whether we're talking thyroid, sex hormones, cortisol all these things need to be in synergy to work together for health prevention, and if they're not, then we see a rise in heart disease and heart attacks, cancer. We see a rise in heart disease and heart attacks, cancer, dementia, alzheimer's, and the other part of this is genetics. That, you know I heard a quote and it was genetics load the gun and our lifestyle pulls the trigger, and so that basically means that, yeah, we all have a loaded gun, and how we choose to treat ourselves and, you know, render care, and all these things will inevitably decide what comes to fruition, and so, with that being said, I think that's what I focus on is that's why it's really a clinic specializing in you is because I listen to your history, your personal history, your family history. We look at you know various lab parameters and we decide, you know these are your risk factors, and this is what I'm worried about. So this is how we should approach that to mitigate risk and hopefully prevent, you know, these things from happening.

Speaker 3:

You know young patients with chest pain. It's like we'd probably write that off as anxiety. You're just anxious. Well, I pulled a calcium score. I'm like you're going to go to a cardiologist. You know you're a healthy person and for this individual it was genetics, unfortunately. And so that's the other piece of what I do is I really try to find like-minded providers so that we are, you know, whether it's neurology, cardiology, all those ologies out. There is that we are trying to treat from a basic, like a root cause level to prevent something bad happening. You know later.

Speaker 1:

Before on hormones, I think testosterone, I think you go back to well, even in the last five to seven years I'd say, the white acceptance of the importance in men of that being there. Women hormone, I think like it goes back farther than that. I think that everyone's kind of always known for a long time that hormonal balances are important for health and everything else Is there. You treat both. It's obviously important in both the advances in technology and testing and treatment. It's pretty good now, right?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I would say so. I mean the fundamentals are very similar. I mean, do we indirectly increase these hormonal levels, in this case testosterone, which would be kind of inducing the production, versus just frank replacement of the hormone itself? And testosterone is a very interesting hormone because we don't really associate testosterone with a female hormone and a lot of times a woman may be treated for estrogen deficiency with menopause, but no one ever talks about testosterone, and so I think there is a true balance that needs to be struck with those things.

Speaker 3:

The other really interesting thing is people don't understand testosterone is not FDA approved for women, which is really interesting and hits home how hormonal advancements are really on the rise for females, because just in the last 20 years, I mean, hormones were all studied on men and so a lot of what we do is all based on male studies that we apply kind of to females, and so now there is more of a rise in actually studying the effects of these various hormones on women's health.

Speaker 3:

And I think just it's not hard to look too far at a menopausal woman and seeing all the things that they suffer from heart disease, osteoporosis, dementia, alzheimer's, and so men less so like it's rare to see a man that gets osteoporosis, which is the low bone density that can lead to broken bones. Um, and it's rare we see that in men, because typically men will maintain their testosterone levels ish, uh, throughout their life, and so, um, I think there is a little disparity there and, as this information rises and there are some really wonderful, you know, ob-gyns out there that are really hitting the ground running with really talking about how important hormones are, because, medically, I mean, I don't know about you, but I did not learn about hormones in school and I know that a lot of medical programs do not teach their doctors or anybody about hormones when you're getting as old as me.

Speaker 1:

they could have taught me about a lot of things at this point. I don't remember a lot of that stuff, but I get what you're saying. So if we've hit, we've had sleep, kind of the we've hit hormones a little bit, because I know this is also important vitamins and how they're, how they interrelate, interrelate right.

Speaker 1:

So, um, talk about vitamin d yes, yes um, we're probably, like this time of year, less deficient, right, just because, but but it's, it's hard, even during the summer, right? You draw a lot Ds, so tell us what you see in people.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I would say you know. First of all, I think there's a misconception that if you go to a provider and they say, well, you're normal, everything looks good, well in my mind, normal in a lab testing platform. When you see the lab results and it says you fall within normal range, I don't think that those normal ranges really illustrate whether they're actually healthy and normal for that individual or for a cohort of people. So that's important to note. So if you're normal with your vitamin D, I still I actually shoot for a much higher vitamin D than what's normal. So I think most labs it's 30 or less, but I shoot for 75. So what that means to me is about 90% of all the patients I evaluate are lower than 75.

Speaker 3:

And the other misconception is vitamin D is not a vitamin at all. It is a hormone and it has been correlated with so many things, including death by COVID, autoimmune diseases, so on and so forth. So the importance of vitamin D is I don't think anybody could talk enough about it and how important it is. I think everybody needs to be on vitamin D. Um, it's very low risk.

Speaker 1:

Is your opinion then that with just sunlight or normal diet, if you can't even get to a 75, probably?

Speaker 3:

No, um, and the only people that I see remotely close are people on supplements Right.

Speaker 1:

So let's talk about supplements, because they're not all created equal when it comes to vitamin D. So tell us what vitamin D we should be taking and even the forms of vitamin D we should be taking.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so vitamin D, you can actually get prescription strength or you can get supplement. What's interesting is D2 is the one that's prescribed and it's actually less absorbable.

Speaker 1:

The D3, right.

Speaker 3:

Yes, and D3 is what you get over the counter in a supplement form. I don't really mind too much as to what supplements they're using for their vitamin D. I just try to make sure they're getting you know. If you are lower, I put them on a high dose vitamin D, which is about 10,000 IU.

Speaker 1:

So to put that in perspective, the little white pills, the D3s, are 2,000?.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and what's interesting is?

Speaker 1:

So you need five of those a day, right, okay?

Speaker 3:

Yep, you can also buy certain supplements that have the 10,000 IU in them, and then there's, you know, 5,000. And then a maintenance dose would be like two to five thousand iu a day would be a good maintenance.

Speaker 1:

Um, and so, once you hit your lab level and you're like okay, I'm doing okay exactly can you talk about like when I I didn't. I don't know the answer to this question, but when I I did the ag1, the athletic greens, um, and so I do that. And when, with the with the subscription six months ago, it came with D three drops and well, I read about it and it sounded like that was maybe more effective to do the liquid drops. Is that true?

Speaker 3:

Um my thing is propaganda, right it's all a little schemey because you know some people hate taking pills. So I'm like sure do the drops. You know, just know that it's. I think it's about a thousand IU per drop in most of those supplements, um, and they also I think they have K2 in there. Um so K2 can improve absorption of vitamin D Um, but in general I don't care as long as your vitamin D levels look good.

Speaker 1:

I'm doing both right now.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, good.

Speaker 1:

Problem with that. Do you like the athletic green stuff?

Speaker 3:

I do.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it tastes horrible. I like the taste. You do, oh, I, honestly it's. I'm like like Pavlov's dog in the morning. I like go grab the little packet out and I already automatically start getting nauseated, thinking oh man, I got to drink this stuff. But um, it's supposed to be great.

Speaker 3:

It is good. I think they do a good job.

Speaker 1:

It's freeze dried, I mean it's been around for a long time. It's got probiotics, it's got pre and probiotics.

Speaker 3:

It's got mushroom derivative to help with, like adrenal function or cortisol, and then it's got adaptogens too in it, right, yes? Yes, and adaptogens kind of help with that cortisol stuff. So that helps with um, you know cause, certain adaptive adaptogens help rise cortisol and certain ones bring it down, so, um, but adaptogens are great so we hit vitamin D three.

Speaker 1:

What else? What are the other vitamins you really focus on?

Speaker 3:

So another fundamental, I think is high dose omega-3 fatty acids. Um, the goal would be about a thousand milligrams of EPA, and so when you read your omega-3 fatty acid bottle, it'll say EPA, dha on it. The really cool thing about omegas is they're really great for heart health and cardiovascular health, because we want to see a rise in good cholesterol. But the other great thing is they've actually shown that it can be just as effective as an SSRI, which is like a Prozac or an antidepressant in helping with mood.

Speaker 1:

I didn't know that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so I want everybody on omegas.

Speaker 1:

So if I take one giant tablet a day, is that enough.

Speaker 3:

It just depends on the supplement. So, like the one that I use a lot, it's usually three capsules a day. Oh really, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2:

Wow.

Speaker 3:

And if you get the fishy taste, a little sneaky thing to do is throw them in the freezer and then take them, because it'll stay cold and frozen and then it'll get out of your belly, and so then it'll actually.

Speaker 1:

It gets absorbed.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, exactly, so it can help with those fishy burps.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so that's D3, omegas. Yeah, multivitamin.

Speaker 3:

I mean you can do a multivitamin. The thing I caution with multis is when you start doing single supplementation, you just want to make sure that you're not taking too much of any one thing so like vitamin Bs can be very stimulating and actually give people anxiety. So I do think vitamin Bs are also critical. They're precursors to hormones. But I tell people, if you're drinking an energy drink that day or you're taking a pre-workout that has bees, you want to make sure you're not taking bees that day. So that's kind of another thing to hit home with your multivitamins.

Speaker 1:

Magnesium.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

What do you think?

Speaker 3:

It's good stuff. I mean it's great for brain health. You can actually certain types of magnesium you can take before bed to help you sleep.

Speaker 1:

What's the good one?

Speaker 3:

There's one that's better than all the other ones. Is it glycinate? Yeah, the glycinate.

Speaker 1:

I think Glycinate or whatever, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

So you like the magnesium.

Speaker 3:

I do so if.

Speaker 1:

I'm doing D3, I'm doing my athletic greens, I'm doing a Centrum over 50 geriatric multivitamin and a little magnesium. I'm hitting it pretty good.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I would add in the omegas, for sure.

Speaker 1:

Omega, I got that too. Yeah, anything, I'm still missing. It's not supposed to be about me today, megan, but I'm like. I'm like just going through my routine, that's. That's pretty good, right.

Speaker 3:

I think so, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Let's talk about diet.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, diet is. You know that's diet and exercise. I mean we can't hit that one home enough. So, um, diet there's a lot of. There are a lot of diets out there and people are just like I don't, I don't even know, I get overwhelmed. I mean I can fall into a dark hole with a spreadsheet and you know not come out trying to figure out grams and everything. I think the most important thing to know is that you want to avoid processed food if you can, at all costs. If you can at least bake your bread, you're already like way ahead of the game. So, um, because the process stuff is all addictive. I mean that's why we want that really white bread all the time. You know the um, the modern day wonder bread is because it it actually grandma sycamores.

Speaker 3:

That's right, exactly, um. So I would say that number one is protein intake. We do not get enough protein intake.

Speaker 1:

Do you do one gram per kilogram?

Speaker 3:

So one gram per goal weight pound. So if you are 200 pounds but you want to be 150, eat 150. And that's you know. These are all very loose.

Speaker 1:

What's your preferred protein?

Speaker 3:

You just want to make sure it's a grass fed, grass finished based protein source. So if you are I, you know my thing Buffalo beef. I do not believe that you have to stop all beef products if your LDLs or your saturated fats are too high on your lipid panel or your cholesterol. I believe that it's more about weight loss and fiber intake and maintaining a healthy lifestyle than it is to say you can't have any red meat, because at the end of the day, red meat and other meat sources have a really high burn. So let's say you eat a thousand calories of a big T-bone. Well, you could burn 200 of that, you know, just by processing it. So I think meat is a great source. You know there is more data to suggest that plant-based protein sources are a little bit superior. I don't know. My thing is is if you can get it in, so lean beefs are fine grass-fed if possible.

Speaker 1:

no hormones in that we're fine. Grass-fed if possible.

Speaker 2:

No hormones with that.

Speaker 1:

Chicken still fine, fish is great, those are all great. Then if you needed supplemental proteins 150 grams- is still a lot of protein. What do you suggest for a supplemental protein Do?

Speaker 2:

you like those.

Speaker 1:

Are there any drinks that you? There's like those core proteins that are like 42 grams each. What do you suggest?

Speaker 3:

I recently tried cachava I don't know if you've heard of that. It's kind of like a protein with um vitamins. It's almost like an ag1 with protein. Um, I've actually really enjoyed it.

Speaker 1:

Um, protein can be really hard though, because if you're getting, you know, a lot of whey or soy based protein or something like that, you know soy has kind of an estrogen component to it and so it can dysregulate hormones a little bit, and so, um, I can't say that I have found a perfect drink for protein personally, and then back to something else you said I've heard this once and I it's probably true is if, if you went shopping and stayed only on the exterior, like the exterior walls of the of the supermarket, that's probably okay, and anytime you go to any of the aisles you're into processed foods.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, for the most part that's very true. I mean, the nuts are on the in the aisles and I'm a big nut fan. Um, you know pumpkin seeds and um, is there nuts we should avoid, or one which ones are better?

Speaker 1:

than others and things like that. Is there nuts we should avoid, or which ones are better than others?

Speaker 3:

You know, I think pumpkin seeds, pecans, things like that, like cashews, are a little more fatty, damn it. I know they're the best Gosh, they are the best Guys. That's why I haven't seen you in a while you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1:

No, I need to be better, Megan.

Speaker 3:

Oh, don't we all Okay, great.

Speaker 1:

So we've hit diet, we hit supplements, We've hit vitamins. I know what you want to talk about is super uncomfortable on the podcast, but you're doing a lot for sexual health right now. Yes, I don't know why it's uncomfortable, megan, it just is for America, right? We don't talk about this. Except for with our doctor.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

It just is for America, right.

Speaker 3:

We don't talk about this Except for with our doctor. Yeah, but talk about it. Yeah, it is an interesting subject matter, but I think it matters so much because connection in our world is so important. And who do we connect most with is usually our spouses. And you know, I joke around and say I save marriages, which it's kind of true.

Speaker 3:

I joke around and say I save marriages, which it's kind of true, because sexual health you know, if you, if for some reason, you haven't been able to connect with your spouse in that way for quite a long time, it causes a lot of tension and also it, I think, it makes people feel good. In a sense, you can feel like you're providing a service. That probably sounds bad, but it's kind of like I did something good for my spouse today. And sometimes, as women, if you know, they have vaginal dryness from menopause or hormonal deficiency. They can't. I've I've had patients who haven't had an orgasm in years, men who have, you know, substandard ere or not even getting morning erections, and so these are all very alarming things. We want to fix that and so, um, people don't usually walk in talking about sex, but it's something I definitely ask about.

Speaker 1:

Do you know how many people in the ER over 18 years that come in and their chief complaint was headache? And then they'd get in the room and they'd say, I got to tell you what it really is. Yeah, and we'm like, oh okay, but it's hard to talk about, right? I mean, it's in fact there's an ER story. It's actually not funny, but it's funny.

Speaker 1:

I had someone come in that I knew acquaintance, didn't know him well, their chief complaint was headache. They told me the whole story. We did a CAT scan in the ER, we sent him home, I sent him to a neurologist and then he came back like two nights later and he said, hey, the real reason I came in was this oh, my goodness, I'm like why on earth would you tell me when you were here last time? He's just like. I was just too embarrassed. So I made up a chief complaint. But I like telling that story because I think some of these things mean it. Why is it so hard to talk about? And then, two, how have you found it easier to let patients talk about it and provide that um, uh, that practice, um service in your practice? What are some secrets?

Speaker 3:

for those listening to the podcast today. You know that's that's a hard question, I think. First, I want always people to feel comfortable and people can tell me. I've heard some wild things in medicine and I would say that the number one thing is you just don't react. You know it's about validation, because it's a scary thing to say I can't have sex with my husband and that is accepting.

Speaker 3:

A lot of us have core wounds of feeling unlovable and so if that's part of your way of feeling lovable, you know, I think it's really deep seated in kind of who we are as humans, because we want to feel lovable and feel connected. And you know, we know in marriages and relationships that it is such an important component I mean talk about. I mean we call it libido mismatch, you know. And so there are a lot of times I'll treat the wife and she's like okay, you got to see my husband because we've got to fix that too, because we're having a mismatch. And you know it's just like money, really anything.

Speaker 3:

There's this kind of mismatch. I have a need, but you can't meet that need, and so when we as humans feel like we can't meet our partner's needs, it can be very detrimental to our mental health, to the relationship, to a lot of things. And so I would tell people that first find someone you're comfortable talking about sex with and if you don't, don't talk about it because it's just going to make you not feel very good anyway. But when you do find that person, be completely candid and honest, because you know my, my role for myself is to really provide information and option and ultimately the patient gets to decide what's right for them.

Speaker 1:

Well, the good news there's help out there, right Correct, If you can, if you can be honest and open and have someone connect with. Well, the good news is there's help out there, right, Correct. If you can be honest and open and have someone connect with, then you can, you know, and I think it's a big deal.

Speaker 3:

Meg, I really do.

Speaker 1:

I do too.

Speaker 3:

That's great, I can't believe we're up on our time almost. It's really easy to talk about these things. It goes by really really, really fast.

Speaker 1:

Before we leave, tell us a little bit about your clinic and your. Before we leave, tell us a little bit about your clinic. So the website is again paragondco. So P-A-R-A-G-O-N-D dot C-O Based here in Meridian, and you have openings and people want to come talk about vitamin D3 or sex, yes. They can do both but everybody gets.

Speaker 3:

They get to um, you know, every patient. We start with the basics and that is a very large, comprehensive, like blood work panel because, you know, I I feel like a lot of what I even the sexual health piece, weight loss, any of those things.

Speaker 1:

Oh, we didn't talk about weight loss. I know weight loss is a big one. We've got to talk about weight loss.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, weight loss has been a lot of fun.

Speaker 1:

So let me just set this up that I think well, first of all, if you look at caloric intake of the American diet, we're kind of all screwed, yeah. Kind of all screwed yeah, because everything's processed, everything's um. You look at just sugar, the value of sugar and how it stores fat in people's body and caloric intakes. I laugh at like ADA recommendations, cause you think of like a 1800 calorie ADA record. I'd like go to go stop at McDonald's on the way home or Chick-fil-A, or go home and eat, you know, whatever that's processed and you're going to be well above that. So there's no. I mean, none of us should be surprised that America is obese and fat and a lot of that's food industry. Yeah, a lot of that is people. It's addictive sugar, sugary, fatty sugar, sugary fatty substances that make Nestle and a lot of people a lot of money every year, 100%. So once we have that understanding, now you got okay, I'm fat.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, what do I do?

Speaker 1:

What do I do? I feel like crap. I'm fat, I'm not sleeping well, my hormones are all mixed up and I don't feel good about myself. I've got depression, I've got anxiety. I sit around all day looking on social media at all these people that post their fake lives and I feel worse about myself. Holy crap, that's America.

Speaker 3:

Yep Living the dream.

Speaker 1:

Okay, megan, help us out of that Weight loss, because I guess we've talked about a lot of other things. But if you find yourself in a place where you're 50 to 60 to 70 to 80 pounds overweight and you're going to like I'm going to go to the gym every single day and I'm going to work out faithfully, it's self-defeating. Also, and I think you look at these Ozempic and these medications that have come out in the last year and there is a rage around them because they're working and people are losing a lot of weight and I think for the first time in a long time, they're giving people hope. So talk about them, because I know you prescribe them and you're a believer in them.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you know my journey with the semaglutide or the so Ozempic, and then there's Wake, ovi and Moonjaro, and so I'm going to reference these drugs a little bit differently. So semaglutide and trisepatide, which is the actual drug itself, but so slow down.

Speaker 1:

So semaglutide is ozempic and waygovi. That's the combo.

Speaker 3:

Well, they're two different, like so ozempic, and then there's waygovi.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 3:

And they're, they're called semaglutide.

Speaker 1:

That's right, great. And then the second one Munjaro, munjaro.

Speaker 3:

And that one's terzepatide, terzepatide, yes.

Speaker 1:

So they're competing different drug companies, different bases, but they're similar in their effects, which are they decrease absorption in your gut, causing you to be more satiated or full. And so if you're more satiated and full because of this medicine medication that's slowing down absorption in your gut then in theory. You say I'm not hungry, so I'm not going to eat, and then you lose weight and you feel better about yourself.

Speaker 1:

Yes, Well, I mean that's social media still screws everything up, but, but, but you're 45 pounds lighter and you've and you're, you know they're working is the point.

Speaker 3:

Yes, and to take it further, um, I referenced these drugs in my clinic as GLP ones, and that is the actual peptide that is being utilized in this case. And the reason that's important to me is that, um, it's gotten so crazy with it that people forget this is just a peptide. And what is a peptide? It's a communication molecule in our body, and so these drug companies found this peptide and they're like oh, we're going to make this better. This is what we think it does.

Speaker 3:

Well, the first one came out on the market in 2007. And then, you know, it wasn't until semaglutide hit and they're like whoa, 16% weight loss in the first year. And then they added another peptide called GIP, making trizepatide, and that one was 21% weight loss in the first year, keeping in mind the studies are based on type 2 diabetes and obesity and all that other kind of stuff. But then it hit mainstream and everybody kind of jumped on the wagon, and what I have seen is my concern is that they are being misused in massive ways, because the studies also show that, if not used with anything else, you lose about 75% muscle mass and 25% fat loss and traditional weight loss with just diet and exercise alone. It's about a 50-50 split and I think there's a few reasons for that. But this is why, and when I treat people, I make sure that everybody's on testosterone and they're lifting heavy weights, because your muscle mass this is awesome, so so risks of taking it are muscle loss.

Speaker 3:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Well, unbalanced muscle loss right so you're going to lose a bunch of weight, but you're going to lose a bunch of your muscle mass, which can lead to bigger problems.

Speaker 1:

So that's why, you add testosterone in and you it's weight bearing exercise. So so cardio is also still important for lots of other reasons, but weight bearing exercises to increase muscle mass to help you is is key. Can you speak? I don't know what you're going to say to this, but the other thing I've read is that there are some people that have depression, ironically with this, and some suicidal ideation with them. But have you seen that at all in any of your patients you've treated?

Speaker 3:

No, actually everybody is ecstatic. Well, and you know, I'm not fat anymore, Well, no, I think like. So the biggest thing that happens is the food chatter goes away and no one even knew that existed until GLP-1s hit the market, and we've started using it. So food chatter. I don't think men experience this as much as women, but like a lot of us women, we think about food all the time. What am I going to eat next?

Speaker 1:

I must be a woman.

Speaker 3:

Yes, so that's actually what the GLP-1 does. It actually communicates with part of your brain and it reduces food chatter because it also reduces reward pathways. So we see a lot less alcohol usage smoking. So now they're doing studies in addiction. So this medicine is not what we think it is and it's very exciting. It's also a really wonderful anti-inflammatory.

Speaker 1:

So the bottom line is you've had really good luck. You've had lots of patients on it. They've had great results and as long as they add in the exercise the weight, especially weight bearing exercise testosterone, to make sure that they're keeping their muscle mass up and this, that they're feeling better than they ever have. Talk about the longevity of the weight loss.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Big fears that hey, I lost 50 pounds.

Speaker 3:

Now what you know? That's. That's the big question mark that's on everybody's mind. I would say that if you lose all your muscle mass, you're going to be hanging out with a GLP-1 for the rest of your life, because your muscle mass is truly what your metabolism is. The other thing, though, is that food chatter is incredibly annoying, and once you experience life without it, it's amazing how much I get done. I can think about things you know.

Speaker 1:

The clarity is so much better I'm going to come see you and get like I got to get on this stuff Cause. I can stop thinking about Oreos and totally.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, um, and so I do. I've had patients come off of it entirely. I've had patients continue to use very low doses, very intermittently. Um, because the thing about hormonal weight gain as well like in the um, men and women alike is that it is so hard to lose, even if I get hormones optimized, and so the option is always there. You want to do this faster? We'll just throw a little.

Speaker 1:

I always say sprinkle in a jumpstart though, right Like so. So like all of a sudden you're like I'm stuck and I'm like, okay, I'm. I'm really glad we hit that, because a lot of questions about that out right now. So so you've had a lot of success with that. That's awesome.

Speaker 3:

Okay, just be careful where you're getting it and it's probably individualized.

Speaker 1:

I like what you said like, like, having someone that can meet with you and tell you, hey, this is what it means for you and this is your path. And then, six months from now, really individualized care yes, that's awesome. Hey, this was awesome.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it went by way too fast. I know I didn't hit all my talking points, just kidding.

Speaker 1:

Thanks, meg, we'll have to have you back.

Speaker 3:

Thanks, tommy, I appreciate it.