Ever Onward Podcast

The Future of Boise: Growth, Challenges, and Strategies with Clark Krause | Ever Onward - Ep. 58

• Ahlquist. • Season 1 • Episode 58

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What does the future of Boise, Idaho look like? 
This episode dives into the transformative economic development efforts in Boise, led by Clark Krause. The conversation covers workforce initiatives, major development projects, and the pressing challenge of affordable housing. Clark shares insights on strategic partnerships that drive growth and discusses the broader economic impact of major employers like Micron.

Key Topics Covered:

•The significance of the 4th & Idaho/ICCU Tower project and its role in Boise’s growth.

•The Tax Reimbursement Incentive and its positive impact on attracting and expanding businesses.

•Micron’s expansion and how it shapes the local economy by creating job opportunities and attracting industry partners.

•Addressing the affordable housing crisis, exploring potential solutions to balance growth with accessibility.

•Educational programs aimed at connecting students with local job opportunities, ensuring a strong talent pipeline for the future.

•Clark’s optimistic outlook on Boise’s economic future, highlighting upcoming opportunities and initiatives.

Tune in to gain valuable insights into Boise’s thriving economy and the collaborative efforts driving its success.

Bio:

Clark Krause brings over 25 years of experience in economic development, having served as the Director of Economic Development for City Cedar/Iron County in the Red Rock Country of southern Utah and as CEO of economic development efforts for the state of New Mexico. For the past 14+ years, he has been the Executive Director of the Boise Valley Economic Partnership (BVEP), where his leadership has contributed to the recruitment and expansion of over 40 new companies, creating more than 14,000 jobs in the Boise Metro area.

Clark played a pivotal role in introducing the Tax Reimbursement Incentive to the Idaho State Legislature in 2014, a policy that has fueled growth for numerous businesses in the state. Under his guidance, BVEP has been instrumental in supporting Micron’s expansion, helping to attract critical suppliers and vendors for the company’s new research and manufacturing facility in the region.

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Speaker 1:

Today on the Ever Onward podcast we have Clark Krause. I've known Clark for a long, long time. Clark leads and guides Boise Valley Economic Partnership as the Director of Development. He has a long, storied career in economic development for different jurisdictions around the United States, starting in southern Utah and then going to New Mexico before coming to the Boise Valley Economic Development Partnership 14 years ago. Clark is responsible for some of the major names that have been recruited to the Valley and job growth here. He's also been very involved in the Micron expansion. Can't wait to catch up with Clark he's an unbelievable guy, deep knowledge of business in the Valley and hear what's going on with him and all that he's got going on. Clark Krause.

Speaker 2:

Holt, it's good to have you back on here. It's good for me to be back on here. I'm Mark Cleverley with Allquist Development, chief Leasing Officer. Introduce, holt.

Speaker 3:

Holt Haga VP Leasing Allquist Development.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, We've talked a lot about the new downtown project, the ICCU Tower 4th and Idaho, but a lot of people don't know specifics. We get questions a lot like you know is there parking, Is there going to be restaurants? You know, how much office is there? What do the condos look like? So it'd be great for you to just kind of walk through you live and breathe this thing every day Walk through what we've got down there in the building.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean the project itself has so many unique components and facets to it, right. I mean, you know, just starting with location, it's in a spot, part of Boise that there's just there's not a lot of commercial development. I mean, we sort of had to pave the way to get this project approved from agency approval and then delivery, but it's in a part of Boise, it's just. You know, it's like the perfect location. You're three blocks away from, you know, all the restaurant row at 8th and Main. You know that whole 8th Street corridor that's all pedestrians closed off. You're three blocks from that.

Speaker 3:

You're four blocks away from, you know, one of the largest medical centers in the state of Idaho, with St Luke's downtown, and then you're like you're five blocks away from a trailhead that gives you that, gives you access for hiking and biking with the Ridge Rivers trail system, with the foothills. It's, it's, you know, a three minute walk from from the site, from the project. Yeah, so I mean it's just, it's an incredible location. And part of the location too is just that you've got unobstructed view. There's nothing around it, right. Everything else are these single-story old homes, small office kind of buildings, single-level office buildings, and so you get these incredible view corridors from that location that are really unmatched in our market.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you see, if you look at the skyline of Boise, downtown Boise, you've got St Luke's and then you've got the core of downtown and there's this hole right there. There's really nothing tall right, I mean, there's homes and there's businesses, but this would be awesome to have a 13-story building right there, right in the middle of those two spots.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so I mean nuts and bolts of the project, right? So it's, you know, 13 story office tower. There's two towers sitting on top of a parking podium. So so the mechanics of the building itself yeah, 13 stories of office, or 13 story office tower, about 140,000 square feet of office space. We've got four floors of parking. So floors, you know the first floor, we've got some. You know retail class a, retail feet of office space. We've got four floors of parking. So floors, you know the first floor, we've got some. You know retail, class A, retail on the first floor. Floors two through five you've got parking, a ton of parking.

Speaker 3:

That's one of the things we learned, I think, with 8th and Main is it's great to have a nested parking garage. You know you've got self-contained, dedicated parking that you can rely on, not only for your employees but also for your clients. I mean, they know that they're going to have a place to park and they're going to be able to park and within five minutes, be at your place of business. That's unheard of. And so we juiced up the parking. We've got four times the parking ratio here that we had at 8th and Main versus 8th and Main. So a ton of parking, and then levels 6 through 13, class A office space, yep, and then levels, you know, 6 through 13, class A office space, and it's so, you know? I think that's another unique thing that we're offering at this project, too is, you know, you've got the opportunity to own office space in a true class A office tower in downtown Boise.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we're condoing the building, so each floor will be condoed and we can sell. Sell what we need to if we want to. If somebody needs to buy it, then we can. We can accommodate.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and that and that's unmatched. I mean there's. You will not find that in our market at any other project. Class A office tower where you can own your office space, and that's. That's a big deal for for businesses who want to control their destiny. Absolutely right, dedicated office space, you own, dedicated parking.

Speaker 2:

I mean these are these are big things and and in one of the best locations in, in boise, yeah, and then and you know matt boucher working on the on the residential side, 69 units, which is great, um, so it really is like a. It's almost like one of those we we talked a lot about out here in the projects in the suburbs that mixed use. This is like a true mixed use place downtown.

Speaker 3:

All in one, which is really cool Package Really cool, yeah, awesome.

Speaker 2:

Exciting stuff, man, exciting stuff. Yeah, great project to work on. Yep, thanks, let's go. Baby, yeah, baby.

Speaker 1:

Clark, thank you very much for coming on.

Speaker 4:

Thank you, this will be fun. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

This will be fun. I read your bio before we started and I in there it's you've been here 14 years. That makes me feel old brother.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, yeah, 2010,. Right in the middle of the recession.

Speaker 1:

I remember when you got here. I remember vividly our first meeting.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and I remember your building going who's building stuff right now on Eagle.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's good to see. It was crazy. Yeah, and the other thing is you had a connection to Southern Utah. Yes, we used to go down there three times a year to Moab, and we loved being down in the canyons and arches. I spent a lot of time in Moab and that surrounding area, so I remember you coming in and thinking this guy's going to be great and you had so much experience 14 years, though, buddy.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Can you believe that?

Speaker 4:

Really I can't. I feel like I just blinked and we're here. You know, my hair's a little whiter, for sure, and you know a little older, but it's okay.

Speaker 1:

Well, you've done a tremendous job. Um, I do want to get in. I mean, the Valley's changed so much. But, uh, and I think there's probably no one that listens to this podcast who doesn't know you, about you and your story. But for those who may have not, do you want to just give a little bit of background and then we'll get into Boise?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I hope I don't make it too long. I couldn't keep a job for a while there. That's not true.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I started. Where are you from? I don't know that. Where'd you grow up?

Speaker 4:

I grew up in Yosemite National Park and so I complained a lot about my childhood, and so I complained a lot about my childhood, and then I went to school at Fresno State. Don't hate me for that.

Speaker 1:

We have to have a team in the conference. We beat all the time. That's fine.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, yeah, right. And then I ended up after graduating from college. I was in the automotive industry for about 10 years for Ford Motor Company and Honda for the factory side. So I was a factory rep. I was out calling on dealers all over the place in Texas, new Mexico, and then I was down in the Bay Area with Honda. And then I was lucky enough, I took a break and went over to Brian Head, utah, and was in the ski industry for seven years as a director of marketing. Oh, I didn't know that. A little ski area down there. I worked for Brad Wilson. Okay, he's like the speaker he just ran against Curtis. Well, he's the general manager of Bogus Basin. Oh yeah, I'm thinking of the other Brad.

Speaker 1:

Wilson. I'm thinking of the other Brad Wilson down in Utah. You're talking about Brad Wilson up here.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, the chairlift Brad Wilson, chairlift Brad Wilson. Okay, so I worked for him for several years and then got into economic development, cedar City, iron County in southern Utah, yeah. So I was down there for 12 years, yeah. And then I got an opportunity to go run the state of New Mexico's economic development program for about seven years under Governor Richardson, which was fantastic. He was definitely an aggressive governor and he did a lot, which was fantastic. He was definitely an aggressive governor and he did a lot while he was there, so it was really fun to do that. And then I, you know, got this opportunity to come to Boise. I'd actually interviewed for BVAP five years before I got the job and I came in number two and so I went back to New Mexico.

Speaker 1:

This is not meant to be whatever you're going to say. Right, I'm not trying to be smart here. Who was there before you? I have no idea. Like they should have given it to you the first time, but who was it? Who did you replace?

Speaker 4:

Oh shoot, I'm going to forget his last name, but Paul Someone. Yeah, and he had left about a year before I came in.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that speaks a lot that I don't even remember who you're from.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, yeah and so anyway, and then had come here and just fell in love with the place the first time I was here and I said, if I can do anything, I'm going to get back there. And it came back open five years later and right in the middle of the deep recession of 2010. And probably, you know, maybe a smart move or not, I don't know, but you know, jumped in with both feet.

Speaker 1:

Isn't it interesting to go back? And so you think about it was interesting because up and up through like 17, 18, 19,. I would always. I would start many meetings or conversations like how quickly we forgot, right. Yeah, how bad it was. It was just horrific. I mean, it was just horrific.

Speaker 1:

And I think about back when, you know anyway, when we started, like the Zion's bank building downtown and and, and that was kind of right on the tail end of it, and it seems like most of all we talked about, if you think back to those days, was talent retention and recruitment. Like where, where, where our body's going to come from? Where are businesses going to come from? Where are jobs? No one was doing anything. We had this beautiful thing called Boise State that had just won a Fiesta Bowl.

Speaker 1:

There was a lot of activity surrounding their programs and what was going on, but other than them, it was just all about arbitrage, right. It was like, hey, they're suffering, they're suffering, what opportunities are there? Someday this is going to come back, but it was not a great time here and I think back to those days and now we're in this hyper growth spurt where we've been found there's a lot of negatives that come with it and also some negatives with development. Now it's just an interesting swing. One other comment that you can comment on I was on the United Way board then and we talked a lot, a lot, because they do that community assessment I think it's every two years, might be every three years and they look at community needs and back then if you looked at our wages and jobs and we desperately, desperately needed higher paging jobs that people could live off of, and it was all that you could think about and talk about, and we're so on the other side of that now, it's probably been interesting in 14 years for you to see, hey, we'll do anything to get some companies here to keep our kids here, to, hey, stop it.

Speaker 1:

I've certainly felt that.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, it's been really nice to go from. You know, we were starved if we got a call center right. We were jumping up and down, and now you know there has to be a certain level of wages and we've got to start taking care of the people who live here in a different way than back then. And, yes, we were taking care of them. We were getting them a job, yeah, and now we're looking at, you know, more, focusing on quality jobs and growing things that this community deserves. Yeah, what have been some of the biggest wins? Well, I, you know, I think one of them's in one of your buildings Paylocity changed things for us a lot, you know, and that was back in July 2014. And for good reason. One of the things that came up about, tommy, was the tax reimbursement incentive.

Speaker 1:

Let's talk a little bit about that story. So Paylocity Company out of Chicago, great company, they had done a nation search for where to land and it was down between I can't remember the final, but it was us and Salt.

Speaker 1:

Lake City, you know and you were in there fighting away for this, and then they needed quite a bit of space and there wasn't really anywhere to put them, so they ended up going temporarily downtown until we built our building out at 10 mile. But a lot of effort, and as part of that you're competing against other states that have different tools in the toolbox right, and you were instrumental in creating a way that you could at least get some competitive tools to go attract companies like a Paylocity that have these wages and jobs that we want.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I think the proudest moment BVAPS had in the last you know, 15 years, 14 years since I've been here is that tax reimbursement incentive. When I came in there was nothing. I mean, you know we were selling this place and everybody wanted. You know, a lot of people wanted to be here but when you compared us to Reno or Salt Lake City or Phoenix or Denver, we just didn't have any love to give them on the back end. And whether you like incentives or not, it's part of the business that we work in. And luckily, you know, jeff Sayre came in. Governor Otter kind of said, hey, I want some change, and we were able to get that thing. And it took us three years to get that tax reimbursement incentive but it has been extraordinarily successful.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, and it's interesting when you philosophically talk to people about incentives.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

If you ever stop and think about a I'm creating, I'm paying the tax and I'm getting a discount on my tax, Then all of a sudden there's a different view of them, than someone else is handing out tax dollars to me and I don't know. I think it's been powerful, I think it's been. I mean, you're not going to compete in the world we live in without them, and I think it's been a game changer, Clark, and you led, you led that.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and what's great great about it is pay to. You know you have to perform to to to receive the incentive and the incentives based on payroll taxes. So those are jobs you would have never seen with payroll taxes. You would have never collected Correct, and you're still getting 70% of them at least back into the pool to do good things at schools and other places.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and it ties right to payroll, which is it's been a great I think it's been a great great program Probably made a difference for you since then, as you've tried to attract. There's also a couple of training things the state do. I'm trying to think of the other things that you were able to create. There's the training. Yeah, there's a training grant or something like that.

Speaker 4:

There's an opportunity fund, you know, so that if someone is coming in and they're building a big building with jobs, that there's some infrastructure that you can receive above that. And then of course you have the urban renewal districts, which strategically help the cities be a little bit more competitive against one another, but also against others out of state and more importantly out of state.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, urban renewal has been. I mean, you think about 20 years of urban renewal. Renewal has been, I mean, you think, about 20 years of urban renewal. The problem with um if you go back 20 years ago and you look at how we stack up against and you've been other jurisdictions, I'm fascinated to ask you these questions because you've been in two different States Utah and then New Mexico. It's too bad.

Speaker 1:

We didn't figure out different ways to underwrite different things that had tighter controls, and we never did that. So instead we had this one legislative thing that was called urban renewal. It got blown up. It got blown up and it got and it did get misused. I mean, you know, when I ran for governor and you go around the state and you would sit with different jurisdictions and you would see example after example after example of how it was misused, and then you'd have great examples of how it was used. But the point is it was the only thing. So it forced well, it didn't force, it pressured people to use it in ways that now you know it's become a target, rightly so, because a lot of things so anyway, and urban renewal now is is hard. Uh, because we're so hot, right, things are like it's just like, why are you doing these things right?

Speaker 1:

yeah so it's it's interesting to see. But, um, how have you seen attitudes towards urban renewal? And and have you, is it come up much for you anymore or no?

Speaker 4:

yeah, I mean, I think it's, I think it's, it's an incredible tool. I agree with you. I think it it could be better described and more siloed to where it had its reason to be created.

Speaker 1:

By the way, to be clear, I think CCDC is a shining example like probably the best example in the state of Idaho of how to do it right, how to be forward thinking, how to reinvest. I mean you look at streetscapes and roads and the way they've done stuff. It's pretty powerful. The formula they use it's right down the middle, it's not a lot of wishy-washy. Here's how we do stuff and it's your own tax dollars right. So I go in and I develop public infrastructure and I meet their standards. Then I get some of my tax dollars back that I put into public infrastructure. That's very healthy. And watching them take excess funds and go improve I mean you. It's interesting. Speaking of Reno, you brought it up. We're doing a big project in downtown Reno, a massive project in downtown Reno, and we were able to bring someone from the governor's office over, someone from the city over, and we they spent three days here in Boise a couple months ago.

Speaker 4:

In fact, I think you met the city over and we they spent three days here in boise, a couple months ago in fact, I think.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, we met with them, yes, but man, I, I hadn't ever like walking around downtown boise with them, the sense of go back to pre. You know when the boise hole was there and what ccdc's done and you look at really good planning over an extended period of time to beautify and create value. That keeps businesses strong, companies strong and restaurants strong and this vibrant. And then I remember when we did eighth and main people saying why are you doing an office building? That's the stupidest thing ever. You need to be doing residential. And I remember saying I remember we had this argument multiple times with people saying hey, it's chicken and egg, man, you got to have a place to work and you got to have jobs and then people will want to live there and to watch all that flourish in your time here.

Speaker 4:

It's super rewarding yeah, it was amazing to watch you guys on, you know, when you were there with the gardener group and you were breaking ground on that thing and it was just a big sore in the middle of downtown, right right. And you guys just did a class act, putting an incredible building up and really, I think, kind of the start of things, right.

Speaker 1:

I remember leaving Dave Beater's office and having him just laugh at me. I remember going in there there's a couple guys. I remember going into his office and saying, hey, we're going to do this, and him just like you know how Dave was. And then I remember going into the lead attorney. In a bill it was, we ended up buying the building, the U S bank building to do city center Plaza. But going into the head attorney on a big firm there and him literally like laughing me out of his office and I remember like going, I remember like to this day, pushing the button and going down the elevator and thinking I'm going to prove you wrong, we're going to get this thing done.

Speaker 1:

But it was not a given that that was going to be. It was a hard project. It was not nearly as hard as City Center Plaza, by the way, with Boise State coming over and doing the VRT and that was, I think if Pat Rice wouldn't have been there and I think if the head of the computer science department over at um I'm trying to remember her name, she was fantastic at boise state and mike born and the clearwater guys and and kelly ferris at vrt and john brunel at ccdc and you guys I mean every that's the one thing that has to happen is you have to have really good community partnerships and trust. People have to come together, have to figure really hard things out together and it's pretty beautiful when it happens. It doesn't happen very often.

Speaker 4:

Yeah well, you've made a lot of good things happen here, Tommy.

Speaker 1:

I was thinking about. Do you remember Peter's fight? You don't realize, but back in the day ACHD and the city of Boise were like oil and water and it was just. It added a layer of difficulty to almost everything you did.

Speaker 4:

I'm so glad that's over.

Speaker 1:

I hope it's over. I think it's totally over. In fact, we had a meeting in the city of Boise where the the new director of ACHD, ryan Head, came to the meeting at city hall and before the meeting started, I said, hey, can we all have a moment of silence to just sit here and reflect on the accomplishment of who's sitting around the table today? It was just, it was. It was a great moment of gratitude, moment of gratitude and thanks, but so many great things have happened. Um, what? Uh? I want to get into a couple of some other things you've done. It seems like you've you've been involved in every kind of big, major deal that's come here. Meta was a huge deal.

Speaker 4:

Oh, for sure, For sure. And you know I have to give a shout out to Lisa Holland, who you know was here at that time. Oh, yeah, and then she passed, that's right. Yeah, it was a horrific car accident, but she was, you know, she worked for us at EVAP and then she went over to CUNA to become a director of economic development. She, she was ambitious and really talented and really started that project.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

And at the end of it, after she passed, they said we're going to make sure this project happens because of Lisa Wow. And so it's just, you know, for me I loved her to death. I mean, she was just one of those people that changed my life. You know, she was just one of those younger people you meet that becomes your mentor. Right, and to see that come. You know, I just celebrate her when I think of the Meta project and what it's going to do for CUNA in the long run. I mean, they've got a bunch of other projects that are out there stacked up looking.

Speaker 1:

I'm a proud resident cuna. Now I get it. That's right. Yeah, and I was going to tell you. You know she, she loved you and I mean that the comments you just made, but like that mentorship and and the what you meant to her and her life, and what a I mean what a great person yeah, legacy yeah, truly for a relatively young, what she accomplished and what a great person. Yeah, a legacy. Yeah, truly For a relatively young, what she accomplished and what a legacy Amazing.

Speaker 4:

And then Micron right, micron is just, isn't it. I mean just what that's going to do for the economy long term, no matter what happens with the economy. Having that anchor just be reignited here. Yeah, be reignited here. Yeah, you know not for the first time, but certainly this is a you know and now it's gone from 15 billion to 25 billion over the next 10 years. So it's just begun.

Speaker 1:

And think about like a company founded here. You know there's still founders that you still get to rub shoulders with, that are around the Valley, and then you know lots of changes and growth and international. I mean they're competing against countries in the world right, it's countries versus micron and then to have had this opportunity for them to choose and it wasn't a given. Talk a little bit about that process.

Speaker 4:

I mean they. You know, when they came into town a lot of the decision makers you know I was I was assuming when we sat down with them and Deloitte kind of handled the site selection side of it, you would have thought most of the people would have been very familiar with Boise. But their crew that they brought in, I mean the Micron employees a lot of them were from Texas and they were from other areas and so you know the things you would think they would know about Boise. You were starting from ground zero and they told us that from the get-go and so you know the things you would think they would know about Boise. You were starting from ground zero and they told us that from the get-go.

Speaker 4:

And you know, thanks to the mayor and the governor and a lot of really strong leadership, idaho Power did an amazing job. I mean the onus was on Idaho Power a lot to get that thing you know done and they did an amazing job. And you know we were one of the smallest places they were looking at and even though there was a history there, it certainly was not. You know that was not solidified as a decision until they did. You know their due diligence and really came up with this was the place yeah.

Speaker 1:

Maybe you could speak a little bit, because I don't know that they get enough credit for all they do here in the Valley. But our public utility, led by Lisa Groh and Megan Ronk, and what happens there. It is unusual in the world to find leaders and people who, the minute you meet them, they are like how can we help you? How do we do this together, regardless of the industry, in a public utility setting, to have someone that's willing to just say, for the good of Idaho, for the good of whatever, what can we do to help? And you know it and feel it that, hey, we're going to do everything we can.

Speaker 4:

It's pretty unique and feel it that, hey, we're going to do everything we can. It's pretty unique. You know, having done this in a couple other states and I always look at best practices I would put Idaho power against anybody Amen, anyone. They don't always have a solution, you know, in 24 hours, but they will work with you. They're super honest, they're very prompt, they get back to the clients, they tell the you, they always tell the truth Just super integrity. You couldn't ask for a better team than what we have here, with Adam and Lisa and Megan and the engineers that spend countless hours putting these things together because they're such heavy users. Now, right, it's so sophisticated of what people need. Even a warehouse now is triple what it needed 10 years ago.

Speaker 1:

You hit. I want to highlight what you say because I think it's really powerful. You leave every meeting knowing that you have someone that's listening to you and caring about you. They may not have the answer right there, but you know they're going to get it. You know you're going to get the truth. They're open and transparent and vulnerable and community-oriented and it's just we don't really even talk. I'm sure if we made a column of things we take for granted in life, that's definitely in that column, but it makes a difference to the business community and Idaho at large. It's really pretty wonderful.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and they get nervous when you compliment them. So I'm glad we're doing it, because they are. You know, they're just a silent hero over there that you know. Nothing happens without them.

Speaker 1:

Well, and there's a culture of leadership over there. Um, that just goes back right. I mean, it's, it's. It's actually a great example of what happens when you have really strong leadership and that you know and now Lisa, what she's doing and it's just they're, they're just wonderful people, yeah, amazing, Amazing people Go back to Micron. So, so decision is difficult. Need to figure out how we compete and Idaho Power a huge part of delivering and they have just delivered. I think I heard recently that their part on the program is kind of done on time and on schedule, which was a minor miracle looking at what they had to do by the time they had to do it and I think they're, you know, I think it was a big relief when they're like, hey, we're there, we got her done, but, um, big deal. And then micron's leadership I mean, I think their local leadership with scott gatzmeyer and a lot of those folks, folks that have those long-term roots here, and what it's going to mean to the community. What a huge win for the Treasure Valley.

Speaker 1:

I've heard, you know, when you go through a recession like we went through right and we started our conversation, talking about that, every one of these and when you get old like we are. They're all different. I'm older than you, tom, barely barely, but but they're all different, right? And so when this one was coming, and we all saw it coming, we didn't know what it was going to be like and it was really wonderful um to talk about. Well, regardless of how deep or severe or whatever this is, we've got this thing called this micron fab plant that is coming here.

Speaker 1:

It was a stabilizer for the community and I heard that everywhere I went, from all the different business leaders I knew of going kind of into this thing, and I think we're, I think we feel like we're past it now, but wasn't you know? Was it going to be hard? Was it going to be a crash? Was it going to be hard? Was it going to be a crash? Was it going to be slow? Was it going to be the soft landing they talked about? We just didn't know, right. Certainly, things slowed down significantly for a lot of people, but that steadying influence now it's going to be for a long time. It's just going to stabilize jobs and our economy and all the different things that come with it.

Speaker 4:

Anyway, any other comments on Micron? Yeah well, they've given us the task of kind of helping them target these 200 companies, vendors and suppliers that they would like to see, if not in Boise, at least in Idaho, and if not in Idaho and the five states surrounding us, at least in Idaho and if not in Idaho and the five states surrounding us. So there's a lot of more pipeline that we need to worry about to make sure that micron is successful, which is going to also, you know we had six, we had five new companies last year that we announced just serving micron needs and big companies. I mean, this isn't. They didn't just bring a, you know one office there. They're building, you know, plants and warehouses and those kind of things. So you think about just the impact of Micron and then all these companies that will be here and the, the infrastructure we're going to create for semiconductor and hopefully that leads to more semiconductor business in the longterm.

Speaker 1:

You know talk a little bit about. Um. Our guys went to a couple of your things you had in San Francisco and one of the things that they came back with was Micron's also being pretty like community oriented. Hey, we want you here. We want you.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And that pressure from the top is really important to again create more high-paying jobs we're able to keep our kids here, and those sort of things. Yeah, critical right yeah.

Speaker 4:

I mean we're working, we're hand-in-hand working with their procurement department, all these things, and you know they're pretty busy over there.

Speaker 4:

So we have felt like one of the things I'm very, very proud of Beth and Sierra, who are in my office and you know them. They're leaning on us to help them, we're part of their team and it's been really fun to have that kind of relationship with them, that we are part of the bigger picture and and and that there's there's a heavy reliance on us to help them with that. We also, because of that, we knew that they needed to grow here but also needed to grow in New York, and so we contact Boise, contacted New York and said we should be working together and so we're doing a lot of joint promotional things to try to recruit those companies. And, uh, if you talk to New York about it, the guy we called to say hey, we could partner up with you, he said the only thing that's making me mad about this conversation is it wasn't my idea and I was so proud of Beth because it was her idea and did you tell him it's been a while since a good idea came out of New York.

Speaker 1:

No, that's really, that's really something right? Yeah, it's been fun for Idaho to lead, and I didn't. I didn't know that part of the story. That's great, um, and, and you know, you see all those cranes up and you see it coming, it's, it's, it's, it's coming. And then all I'm glad I want, one of the things I want to talk to you about, is these other companies that we know are looking here. Can we switch topics to education a little bit? Yeah, absolutely, because I know that's been one of your things. So again, if you go back to all of the discussions that were had on all these like business panels and everyone else, it was all about talent pipeline. Where are they going to come from? It turns out, clark, that a lot of talent just came here.

Speaker 4:

Yeah absolutely.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I don't think if you and I were sitting together 14 years ago, we would be saying, oh my gosh, what are we going to do? But what ended up happening is a lot of talented people came here and they thought this is a great place to live, raise my family. I'm coming here. I think that will continue to happen. I think that will continue to happen. But what I think has changed, and is the most significant change because of all of this great development that's happened, is our kids can stay here now, because 14 years ago, if we were talking, there were a lot of people that you know, the classic was hey, my kids went away here, but there's just not a job here. They're not coming back. It's not the case anymore. They're coming back. They want to come back. This is the place to be, and they, you know, I think there's that. And now you've got Boise State still doing fabulous things. You've got Gordon over at CWI yes, killing it, I mean doing a great, great job there. You've got Launch right.

Speaker 4:

Launch is huge.

Speaker 1:

Launch is huge and so we're really, um and I I gotta tell you from a governor, a little perspective getting, having the foresight to get that through, and I always like saying that back again a long time ago, when we had the you know, 60, 60 by something remember it was 60% go on rate and a lot of focus there that felt like college four-year degree. This time, launch feels like a pathway to a job I really want to credit. I don't know who the mastermind behind all this was, but somehow it feels like it's taking Idaho kids and connecting to Idaho jobs and I give Governor Little, his team, his, his staff, the credit for really the messaging's right. I'm optimistic. Talk a little bit about how optimistic you are with us also serving Idaho families and keeping kids here and having jobs for them to come back to.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, coming here in 2010,. It was about the blue field. I mean, that was our success, right, and so you would talk about. Have you been to Sun Valley? Do you know about the Bluefield? And today, that conversation is people know about this place now. A lot of great business success over the last, you know, 14 years. Nothing will change this place more than launch, and so I truly believe that there's one thing that we need to make sure we help the governor with it's launch. Yeah, because if we lose that opportunity, it's going to go backwards again. Yeah, and they had over 15% more go on this last year than they had had. If we can keep that going, it's going to be amazing.

Speaker 1:

I agree with you. Can we stay on this for a little bit? Because there's one thing I believe the role of government and tax dollars are to help working families. I mean, there's all too often where government gets involved and things happen and it benefits the rich. It benefits, it doesn't benefit the working class. I would challenge anyone in the legislature, anyone to show me a better way to affect working class families, those families that kids want to be here. This is the reason we pay taxes. It's the reason we do what we do Then helping them get into in-demand careers, mostly trades.

Speaker 1:

You look at the value proposition at our universities and at CWI, especially for getting a kid here, one of our kids here, into one of our jobs here, and having the state step in to make that pathway and that line of sight cleaner. Come on, there's not a bet. I mean, the legislation is just. The legislative session is just starting right now, but I just I can't believe that anyone in the legislature would chop the legs out from under working class families in Idaho for some weird ideologic thing. Families in Idaho for some weird ideologic thing.

Speaker 1:

Meanwhile, if you examine their own lives on how tax dollars are spent all the time, I guarantee you that launch is going to be more qualified than any other way you use government tax dollars in your life. So I just I can't imagine it's not going to be, but it probably will. So everyone listening launch is now there. It's been. You look at the statistics. It's staggeringly successful. I mean, it's probably the most successful thing that's happened in higher education in forever. And it's affecting the right families. It's affecting the right kids to stay in the right jobs. All of that's happening, but it needs to be funded every year. So if the legislature takes a swipe at it I don't, I don't know, I don't think they will, but but it's. I'm glad we're highlighting it today because it's pretty timely.

Speaker 4:

Oh, you know and it's become this great sales tool for us, right what they know about Idaho, what they think about Idaho, to to show them that program, when I'm out on the road and I'm selling the Boise Metro and Idaho, that we have this very aggressive way to connect you with workforce that's going to have the skills that you need. I mean it is I don't have to talk about the blue field anymore. I love the blue field and you know we'll talk about it, but it truly has changed the conversation and people are like wow, that's happening in idaho.

Speaker 4:

That's amazing yeah you know, thank, you must have a great governor. So you know, and I and I want to say we have a great legislature and I hope they have the wisdom to um, you know, make sure that we're whole on that program well, and again I'm gonna.

Speaker 1:

I'm broken record day, soapbox day. But if, if you want to serve the people and the working, hardworking people that are actually slogging away every day and doing the thing, the small business leaders, the, this is the thing, yeah, so don't take the legs out from underneath the thing that is creating the, the, the opportunity for these kids. I will also say you said it, I mean, I've never heard anyone say it more eloquently that this, retrospectively, is going to be one of the biggest things that we look back on. That strengthens Idaho, that keeps our kids here and keeps our family strong, keeps our business strong. All the things that you've said. My answer is beautifully said.

Speaker 4:

Well, it's great that we have, you know, this community college that's there and you know they're responding so quickly to the needs of Micron, to the needs of builders. You know people that you employ, so it's perfect timing. It's a perfect thing for us to be doing we've been.

Speaker 1:

Um, just a little plug for we, we, um. When I ran for governor I was able to see firsthand these companies, especially the trades that just desperately needed need welders. I mean, I got good friend that owns a company over in rexburg, idaho, a welding company, and it's just like he is one of the most wonderful people Leo's his name and he's just unbelievable. But he runs a welding shop, you know, and he's like there are no welders. So we started a nonprofit a few years ago called Inspire Excellence Teens to Trades is where we do our funding and we raise scholarship money for at-risk kids to get into the trade, specifically HVAC, plumbing, electrical and welding and it's been incredible to watch that happen. We were doing that before this launch thing comes along.

Speaker 1:

But now launch comes along and the beautiful thing that's happened, in America even, is these jobs have become living. You know you can raise a family and they're very liberal wages in these fields. Now and you look at our companies we have right and the way they take in these kids and they give them a pathway to a job. I always talk about Pancho Romero at Advanced Heating and Cooling, but that guy you look at what he does with his employees and the programs he has. So I think we're in America Like damn it, not just here, but in America. We are heading in the right direction, which is creating these, these livable wages and jobs in the fields that that are desperately needed for this whole thing to work. It feels like we're headed in the right direction and again going back over a little our legislature, those that are really leading the charge here. It's really cool.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, oh no, absolutely. I'm just nothing's more important than launch right now for economic development in the state. That's my own opinion.

Speaker 1:

I love your opinion, clark, I'm with you. We'll evangelize together as much as we can Any other exciting things coming our way that you know. If people don't know, I'll tell them a little secret about Clark's. There's all these code names, right, so it's all veiled in like Project Bronco and Project whatever, which was Amazon, which was Amazon, right, and so I know you can't talk about a lot of things, but how are things out there? Are people still looking around and what do you think in 25, 26?

Speaker 4:

years. It's really interesting and, tommy, I shared this with your team a little bit is that you know, when COVID hit, office just dried up, like you know, we just didn't see any, and this last year we're starting to see it percolate again. You know it probably will never be as big as used to be. Fifty percent of our projects were office went to zero during COVID, obviously, but right now we are at 13 percent of our projects last year and they were big and they're nationals, like a pay lossy type thing needing ay type thing, needing a thousand employee kind of deal. So to see that just warm up a little bit is really hopeful.

Speaker 4:

We're still seeing a lot of manufacturing and then, of course, somehow warehousing suddenly makes sense in Boise. Who would have ever thought that? I mean, if you would have said you know we're going to have warehousing in Boise 2010, you and I would have shook our heads and said never. Yeah. But with this logistics and how the models have changed, it's suddenly, you know, we're tractor supply, we've got a brand new project going out in Nampa, that's, you know, half a million square feet, and they're they're announcing very quickly here, finally, officially. It was probably in Boise Deva really early on. But uh, if you really want to see what projects are coming, just go to that that source. They're crazy how good they are at hunting things down. Yeah, dang dawn day's been doing it a long time.

Speaker 1:

I just wish they'd stop writing stories on our fourth in Idaho project downtown yeah, yeah, yeah, write some more why some talk about tractor supply or something. That's not true. He actually helped us out, because a statesman is the one that drills us all the time and then Don comes in and saves the day every once in a while and tells the truth. Good, good, yeah. So tractor supply is big. Is that formally out there now?

Speaker 4:

Yes, they've gone official. Where are they going? They're in Nampa. What part of Nampa? I'm not sure exactly how I could describe where they're at.

Speaker 1:

North or south of the freeway.

Speaker 4:

North, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1:

All right, and then office 13%.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, so we're starting to see some office warm-up again and certainly manufacturing, as we lost those office projects. It got filled in with manufacturing and warehousing and of course there's this, you know. Another piece of the pie is there's a lot of data centers still looking here. So do they all belong here? Probably not, but you're going to see some more data center.

Speaker 1:

And data center is kind of a mixed bag. A little bit right, because super power, lots of power, they suck power. They don't really have jobs, they're limited. Meta, at the end of the day, is what? 50 jobs?

Speaker 4:

I don't know the exact number but I'd say 50 to 100 will be in there and you know those are advanced jobs, they'll be engineers and technicians and that type of thing. But you know it's kind of lit up here but it's lit up everywhere. I mean data centers are looking everywhere and if they can find the power they can find a good utility, good utility and of course we have one of the best utilities in the, the country, that somebody they can work with they're. We're going to see a little bit more of that in the valley yeah, it's, it's.

Speaker 1:

I mean, it's the way of the future. Yeah, with the way everything's done. Uh, talk about manufacturing it's. It's not an area that I'm that well versed on. What? What are some of the areas of manufacturing you're seeing? Looking at our state and our valley?

Speaker 4:

Well, it has been, tommy, like I look at the last couple, azec, which is a decking supply company.

Speaker 4:

You know they do kind of the decks you'd put at your house, right, and it's made of plastics as well as wood, so it's a recycled material. And then that's a fairly large announcement we had and they're out by kind of out by Micron and then Stowe, which is doing cabinetry so they do commercial cabinetry as well as residential cabinetry, announced about a year and a half ago in Nampa, and we're seeing a lot of, for some reason, a lot of activity out of like the Madison area, wisconsin. So you know they've gotten big enough and there's enough building going on that they need to have a location in the western side of the states. They're, I would say, a company around 100 to 400 million investment and they're looking for a place that they can be a fairly decent fish in a smaller pond and they see Boise as being a place that they can do that. And we've had so much success with manufacturing and food here that it's pretty easy for us to show them the workforce and talent that they need here. That's great.

Speaker 1:

Who do we compete with routinely? Or is it different, depending on the thing you?

Speaker 4:

know it's changed a lot. You know we used to see we were competing against I would say nationally flyover states were who were competing against. You know somebody who needed to serve the coast but didn't want to be in California. Or you know somebody who needed to serve the coast but didn't want to be in California. Or you know, didn't want to be in Seattle and they didn't want to be in Portland. And so they're coming here to serve those bigger markets also have a market here, and so it's changed a lot. So it went from. You know we're competing against a Des Moines and so it went from. You know we're competing against Des Moines and Kansas City and those kind of events, and now I would say that more likely it's Reno. Salt Lake City and Phoenix are the three biggest competitors that we face, and Reno just got added to that list Like it's been. Like five years ago I'd never competed against Reno at VVAP. Today they've gone there. It's part of their tour.

Speaker 1:

It's been crazy for us to do some. We're over there a lot and it's a pretty interesting place. It's got a lot going for it. There's a lot of parallels to Reno, to Boise, in fact. If you look at their downtown and you look at their university the former governor is now the president of the university and the way unr is embracing downtown and then all the stuff elon's doing out of sight and everything that goes around, that there's a lot going on there. Um, it's interesting, well, and and um, well, it's, it's not without its challenges. So the last I not want to end, to end our last little bit here what are some of the challenges that all this growth? 14 years you've been here. You see all the good things that come. We've highlighted those like some really great products of development and everything else that's happening. There's probably no two guys that are more pro-development than us. But what are some of the challenges that come with all this?

Speaker 4:

I think it's hard. Anybody who's not looking at how this is affecting families. You know it's become a place that cost of living has gone up and wages even though they've gone up there, there's a bigger gap today than there was 20 years ago here between the wage and what it costs to live here. And so you know you have adult kids, young kids, that are trying to figure out what that way looks like and I do too. You know you have seniors that are trying to figure out how they get to stay here and enjoy this quality of life. I worry about that a lot. So I think affordable housing is something we really, really need to be looking at.

Speaker 1:

What's the answer there? Housing is something we really really need to be looking at. What's the answer there? Because it's one of my biggest concerns, but it's also one of the things like we will not get there through regulation, and it seems like there is this urge by people that don't understand basic economics of supply and demand to regulate their way through this and it just drives pricing up. And I hope we're smarter than that, because we need all kinds of housing. We need all types of housing. We need more multifamily, we need more townhomes, we need more single-family starter homes. We need more single family starter homes. We need more mid tier homes. We need we need more of everything Right and and, and it seems like to me, um, going the route of regulation and then government subsidy to bring housing pricing down is a that is a snowball that kind of never stops versus just how do we get more supply and how do we do it in a smart way with existing infrastructure. But it's a big concern and we've got to probably figure that out right.

Speaker 4:

I think the country needs to figure it out. We have certainly over 20,000 more homes are needed here, right? Is that the number? You know over 20,000 more homes are needed here, right? Is that the number? The last number I heard was 24,000 homes that we don't have today that we need, and I know you're involved in this and I know your heart's involved in the housing crisis and how it affects lower-income families and I appreciate your work. I also look at, but you know you take that 24,000 and you look at Salt Lake City has 150,000 that they need, and then you go look at California before the fire and they have over a million homes that they're short. So this is truly a national issue and probably worldwide issue and I don't have an answer for you today, tommy, but you know I'm I'd vote for whatever you got if you did, we'd.

Speaker 1:

If you did, the next topic would be pancreatic cancer, right?

Speaker 1:

yeah something else hard it's. It's a hard thing but I just I hope we uh, I don't know it's it ultimately uh, because there's some things that probably aren't going to change. I mean, if you look at labor, I mean we're doing all this. Launch is a huge part of that and that's the other argument. You think of our labor shortages with and without launch. I can't imagine that would someone take the legs out from under that, what that alone would do to the cost.

Speaker 1:

And then you got supply. We've seen we do a lot and we've've seen kind of supplies plateau, which has been really good. They certainly never go down. I mean the cost of something it just doesn't ever seem to go down, like a hvac unit or your steel or whatever. It's going to go up and then it stays up but it just stops going up. Right, but labor, you know labor is still that great unknown and that affects the housing market, it affects everything we do, it affects infrastructure costs of everything and that's probably not going anywhere. I think interest rates for the short term I mean there's so much optimism after the election that it kind of squashed any idea of I mean they can't lower them anymore, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's got and they can't raise them anymore. Lower them anymore. Yeah, yeah, it's got and they can't raise them anymore, so what?

Speaker 4:

I'm hearing from really smart people is it's probably going to sit for a while.

Speaker 1:

Sit for a while, yeah, so that's kind of is what it is. So there's a lot. There's a lot of things that none of us control. There's international stuff. There's some stuff, but hey, I'm betting on America. We'll figure this out Right, if we can, if we can let business people and, you know, people that have the American drive and intuition to figure out problems, we will figure this out, as long as we don't get government getting in our way.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, it's really interesting. You know, you look at this marketplace and there's a lot of really beautiful pre-manufactured homes that are built here, but they're going to LA we're close.

Speaker 1:

So you know, caleb roof I got to get caleb on this podcast, but he's one of the smartest guys in the country on this, right? Yeah, and you know this is his world. He does them all over the country. He's quietly the wizard of oz, right? I mean, this guy is the wizard of oz and he lives right here in eagle idaho pacific companies. But he says we're not there yet. It it's still caught.

Speaker 1:

So he's taking these units that he's building here in Nampa, um and sending them all to California and other places because it still costs twice as much down there as it does here. But we're not there yet. And and I just had lunch with him a couple of months ago and asked him are we getting close? Because, because at some point that that's certainly a solution, but it's still not quite there he said it's still cheaper to stick, build and do these things ground up. But I think we're getting close and I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. When I was talking to him, I'm like is it because he's like, no, we're just still. We're still not there. But the good news is we do have several prefab home builders and apartment builders here in the treasure Valley fab home builders and apartment builders here in the Treasure Valley, which has got to be to our advantage, I would think so.

Speaker 1:

I mean, major players in the national market are right here, and so as that changes and flows, I think that I think it's definitely a positive. I just wish it was a little cheaper, because that would be a great solution.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I sure hope. I think it's part of the solution. Right, we're probably going to have? Yeah, part of it. We're going to probably need a thousand solutions to get even close.

Speaker 1:

That's great. What's next for you, buddy? This time went way too fast.

Speaker 4:

What's next? Well, we're going to have a good year. I feel really good about it. We've had some really significant meetings just in the last couple of weeks. People are still there's more developers coming. We've had two, three meetings now with kind of developers looking into the area. So it's hot here. It's going to stay that way and I think we're going to continue with. You know, with launch and other things, we start building our labor force in a different way. It's going to be really, really important. It's a great story for us to tell and you know I'm just looking forward to a great year. I think it's going to be a strong one.

Speaker 1:

I love it. Hey, personally, thank you for your leadership. Thanks for what you do. It's been steady, it's been consistent. You're a great example. You're a great leader. We've been lucky to have you in the middle of all this and hope you do it for a really long time here. Love and appreciate you.