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Ever Onward Podcast
The Ever Onward Podcast is your go-to business podcast, offering engaging discussions and diverse guests covering everything from business strategies to community issues. Join us at the executive table as we bring together industry leaders, experts, and visionaries for insightful conversations that go beyond the boardroom. Whether you're an entrepreneur or simply curious about business, our podcast provides a well-rounded experience, exploring a variety of topics that shape the business landscape and impact communities. Brought to you by Ahlquist.
Ever Onward Podcast
Boise Airport Big Changes - Here’s What’s Coming | Ever Onward - Ep. 59
Get ready for an exciting episode of Ever Onward as we sit down with Rebecca Hupp, the dynamic Airport Director of Boise Airport! With 14 years of visionary leadership, Rebecca has been at the helm of some major changes, and in this episode, we’re diving into the airport’s game-changing expansion. From new nonstop flights to a refreshed concession area featuring beloved local and national restaurants, this is an episode you won’t want to miss!
Join us as we explore how these big changes are shaping the travel experience in Boise, making it easier than ever to fly in and out of the city. Discover the exciting new destinations and the local dining options that are coming to the airport, giving travelers a taste of Boise before they even leave. We’ll also take a deep dive into how these expansions are supporting the airport’s rapid growth and positioning Boise as a hub for both business and leisure travel.
For our Ahlquist update, we’ll also hear from Mark Cleverley and Holt Haga of Ahlquist, who’ll share their insights into the Treasure Valley’s thriving office real estate market, despite national challenges. Plus, learn about the big plans ahead for the Boise Airport’s continued growth, including concourse expansions and runway developments that promise even more opportunities in the years to come.
This episode is packed with exciting updates on Boise’s future – from flights to food to future growth – and the leadership driving it all. Don’t miss out!
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Today on the Ever Onward podcast we have a longtime friend and the airport director of the Boise Airport, rebecca Hupp. Rebecca is a transformational leader here in the Treasure Valley. She's been running the airport for 14 years now and all of the growth, expansion and all of the future expansion has been driven by her as the leader there. We're really excited to have her on and talk about how the airport business runs and what it means to the Treasure Valley and all the great things she's done in her career here in Boise. Prior to hearing from Rebecca Hupp, we're going to hear from Mark Cleverley and Holt Haga that'll talk about some new real estate trends here in the Treasure Valley as part of the AllQuest update.
Speaker 2:Good morning. We're here for another AllQuest update. I'm Mark Cleverley. I'm Chief Leasing Officer at AllQuest Holt Haga.
Speaker 3:VP of Leasing AllQuest Development yeah.
Speaker 2:So wanted to get together here real quick and talk about the office market in general and what we're going to see for 2025. I think 2024 for us was an interesting year. It was the national headlines were offices dead. All of a sudden, retail became the darling of real estate. But we didn't necessarily see that in our portfolio. We went from I mean, we're 99% lease, We've got one space left right.
Speaker 3:One space in our entire portfolio, about 6,000 feet, and we've got a lease that we're about to finalize here, probably this week. Yeah, we're going to be 100% lease.
Speaker 2:We need to start building some new buildings.
Speaker 3:It was interesting too last year 80,000 square feet was delivered to the market in office right, 80,000 square feet and that, and just for some perspective, I mean that's like, uh, an eighth of what was delivered, uh, in the last you know three years, kind of year over year. I mean it's it's a very, very small number. Office was not. Office just hasn't been built, or wasn't built last year, uh, and we know why. Yeah, you know there are obviously a lot of things happened and you know we look at the. The general sort of thesis coming out of COVID was, you know, office is dead, like you talked about, in a lot of markets. It it was, um, the primary markets got hammered, um, you know it's, it's sort of stabilized a little bit. And I think, if you look at the national headlines the last time last I looked, you know, Q4 of of or Q3 of 2024, I think it was right around 20% nationally. It's a lot higher than that in some markets, lower than that in others. Our market, we're very fortunate because it's way lower than that. It's about half that. And so it's a great question, because what's kind of coming is the question that we all ask ourselves.
Speaker 3:What's going to happen in 2025? And I think a lot of it's driven by what you just said. There just wasn't a lot built so it's kept. It's kept vacancy rates low. You know the sublease shadow vacancy numbers that are kind of hidden in that vacancy are buried in that vacancy number. If you drill in you look a little closer. Those numbers are coming down as well. And so I think that lack of supply is going to, you know, continue to mask, you know demand in 2025. And we're going to it should be a fairly robust market moving forward. I think we're pretty bullish and optimistic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we talked about it here a couple months ago on an update. But Amazon came out, said everybody back to the office on an update. But Amazon came out, said everybody back to the office. President Trump just signed an executive order saying all governmental offices back to the office, back to work, no more work from home. So I think that trend is continuing with a lot of different groups and a lot of different companies. And then you're hearing, you know, economists say for the on the office side we've kind of bottomed out and now you're going to see this next year it's going to start rising again. And, um, I think the lending environment is one thing.
Speaker 4:Lenders didn't want to lend on. It got locked up. Markets were locked up last year. They wouldn't even look at it.
Speaker 2:And I think that's going to probably hope, hopefully break free a little bit. Um, it'll be. It'll take some time, but, um, I think they'll start looking at it again. Um, especially now that that workers are are back right. I mean, I just think, I think that national trend is going to continue to happen and it's um, those big markets are going to see people back to the office and hopefully some more vibrant downtowns.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think that's another great point too is what type of office product is going to succeed. I think our general narrative is it's going to be a continued flight to quality, as it's been sort of to this point. But when you look at labor tight labor markets and these culture building like getting people back to the office, those trends aren't going to stop and, if anything, they've gotten more constrained in terms of, like, the labor market, for example, and so you know it's going to be kind of the same narrative and key factors, right, it's location, quality and optimization, and I think that's going to continue.
Speaker 2:So yeah, great 2025,.
Speaker 3:right, let's go build some buildings. Let's go, baby. Let's get the next one out of the ground, all right.
Speaker 1:Rebecca, thanks so much for coming on.
Speaker 4:Thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 1:This will be fun. I've I've uh known you. We've known each other a long time.
Speaker 4:About a decade, I would guess.
Speaker 1:I think it's probably been about a decade and, uh, what an amazing job. Change like. Think of everything that's happened with the airport in your time here.
Speaker 4:I do think about that sometimes, and I try not to think about it sometimes.
Speaker 1:We were together not too long ago and you had a line where you said our 20-year vision became our five-year work plan, or something like that.
Speaker 1:Yes, it was. Our 20-year master plan became our five-year work plan. I can't wait to get into it. But for people that don't know you, you are very involved in leadership just generally in the Treasure Valley, and have been since you took your position. Almost everything that matters you're there, you're doing so. It's not just the airport and the airport is so integrated in what we do. But for those and you're on the chamber board you help with, you're very involved with the military and Gowan Field we can talk a little bit about that, but tell us a little bit about your background and your family and how you got to Boise.
Speaker 4:Well, I was the airport director in Bangor, maine, for 12 years and Mayor Beder at the time recruited me to come to Boise to be the director here me to come to Boise to be the director here and I moved my husband and my two small children, who are now grown adults, to Boise and we've been here since 2012.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I just love this community, everything about it, and happy to be part of it Maine to Boise.
Speaker 4:It's a little bit of a change, yes, and I would like to point out that I started the trend, yeah.
Speaker 1:Tell us about that recruitment Like, what was that like when you because where did you grow up? Back east.
Speaker 4:I grew up in Massachusetts. My husband and I both grew up in Massachusetts.
Speaker 1:That's what.
Speaker 4:I thought, and so we had considered moving to Boise previously and didn't at the time, because our children were even younger than they were at the time that we moved. And you know, when they came to me in 2012, it seemed like the right time you had considered coming before.
Speaker 1:Was that because of his work?
Speaker 4:No, because of my work. They had tried to recruit me before.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, this was the second pass.
Speaker 4:It was the second pass and I try not to bring that up too much, but yes, and it just wasn't the right timing earlier, just because my children were so small, and anyway it was. But in 2012, it was the right time and the right move and the right place and the right position and we've been grateful ever since. And now my children are grown and off doing their own things and they're like wow, Boise is a really great place to live. And I say to them yes, it is, that's why we moved here.
Speaker 1:So go back to 2012, so 13 years ago now, which is kind of crazy. But if you think about it, you're post-recession but you still aren't. I mean it's interesting how quickly things change here. I bring it up all the time but we forget how deep that recession cut here. I mean it was bad.
Speaker 4:It was bad. In fact, we were at about 1.2, 1.3 million passengers a year when I started, and it took us until 2018 to recover to 2008 numbers in terms of passengers.
Speaker 1:So thinking about that, so big, big, deep recession eight, but you come in 12. So four years after it started, and you still what was it pre-recession?
Speaker 4:It was about, uh, just 3.8 total. It was about just 3.8 total.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 4:So I think the first number I gave you I'm confusing, I'm mixing my numbers. So 1.2, 1.3 million, those were in plane mints Total passengers in 2018, we got back up to just under 4 million, so probably 3.8 million total passengers and planed and de-planned.
Speaker 1:And if you go back to the old Boise Airport, the big thing is when they completed the initial. When I got here it was like a little you could park in front of the terminal.
Speaker 4:probably you could park in front of the terminal.
Speaker 1:It was just, in fact, I remember my first time I got here, when I came up and interviewed my story of coming here, because it does involve the airport a little bit I had taken a job, I did my training in Tucson in residency and I had a job sign and I was all done and one of my buddies called me and he's like you've got to to check out Boise and I'd lived in Idaho and I knew Boise and I'm like, okay, but it was winter and I and I literally had the contract done and I just hadn't turned it back in and I said I'll come up and I got here and it was freezing cold and I remember landing in the airport, looking around, going, wow, this is. And it was in the middle of a snowstorm and this little teeny airport. And it's my most vivid memory of this decision, this big decision I'm going to make. And anyway, two days later I decided I'm coming here because a lot of reasons.
Speaker 4:You made the right choice.
Speaker 1:But the airport changed tremendously, and where it's situated and how convenient it is and all those sort of things. Talk about some of the improvements you've made and how those go. One other I'm going to ask you one other because there's a couple of Rebecca Hupp quotes that live in. One time we were together and you said we're really a parking company.
Speaker 4:Oh, did I say that?
Speaker 1:We do airport stuff really really well, but it's an independent business, right.
Speaker 4:It is an independent business.
Speaker 1:It's completely independent and I don't think people realize that. So talk about the business of the airport a little bit.
Speaker 4:Sure, so the Boise Airport is actually owned and operated by the city of Boise, but we operate completely based on airport revenue and, in fact, our largest revenue generator is parking at the airport, and that's probably what you're alluding to and people don't realize that. But parking funds all of the stuff that we do in the terminal and enables us to provide services to our community. So parking is incredibly important to us. And I think I do want to just mention when we talk about growth. So imagine pre-COVID we were at 4.1 million passengers total. Today, five years later, we don't have our final numbers yet, but we're probably going to be just shy of 5 million passengers. So we have almost a million more people coming through the airport today than we did pre-COVID.
Speaker 4:So when you put that in a perspective and the fact that you know to do a project. It's a year, you know when you build a big project.
Speaker 4:It's 12 months of construction, 18 months of construction, maybe 24 months of construction. You know we have a consolidated rental car facility that's going in right now and that'll be a full two years of construction, not counting the design time. So you know we did add parking because people come not only from Boise but from all over Idaho and Eastern Oregon and you know they're coming to Boise to fly. So they're not just Boise people who are coming fly, they're coming from all over the region and all over the state. So most of them come by car. So we need to provide parking. That's incredibly important to the people who are using the airport. It is a revenue source for us that allows us to make improvements in our facilities and infrastructure. You know you don't ever pay for the signs that are in the terminal, but they someone pays for them. We pay for those through parking.
Speaker 1:Wow. So I'm going to I'm going to slow you down because I really think it's fat. The business of what you're talking about is fascinating. So it's completely separate budget owned by the city, but you run your own budget. You are essentially the CEO and run a business that is the airport business. That involves parking as your top line revenue, largest number, and then fees associated with the airlines and those sort of things. Talk us through kind of the revenue side of running an airport.
Speaker 4:Sure. So we are owned and operated by the city of Boise. The city council does approve our budget and I do report to the mayor and the chief of staff. But when it comes to our budget, our top revenue is certainly parking it's probably about a third of our revenue, followed by rental cars, which is about another 25%, and then the airlines probably a little over 20% of our revenue, but they're probably third in line when you think about the fees that they pay for landing fees, renting space in the terminal. And when people ask me about the terminal, I explain to them it's kind of like being a mall. You know everyone is our tenant. I often get asked do you get free airline tickets?
Speaker 4:No that would be a conflict of interest, sadly. So. No free airline tickets for any of our airport employees. But you know, we operate as a landlord, and so the airlines are our tenants, the rental cars are our tenants, the concessionaires are our tenants. We have some really exciting improvements coming up to our concession program, which I would love to talk about, and so those are some of the big revenue generators. We also have a fair amount of property around the airport. The airport has about 5,000 acres. A couple thousand of those are dedicated strictly to the aviation infrastructure runways, taxiways, terminal, all the infrastructure that goes along with the airport. But we own a number of properties around the airport, and so industrial development is an area where we're diversifying our revenue, and we did an RFP several years ago for a developer, and so we've partnered with Mike Adler and the Adler Company to develop some of our properties for industrial property as well, and so that's great Talk about.
Speaker 1:Well, there's so many things there. There, literally, are so many questions.
Speaker 1:I have cause I, I really am fascinated by this. So so you did an expansion which was a major expansion last time, where you had the new terminal, everything was new. And then there was this idea. You went out and kind of amenitized it Back in the day. I thought it was interesting. You brought in Bardenet and you brought in the other local groups and kind of did that. You're set for kind of a redo of a lot of things. So talk a little bit about what's happening there and what people will see in kind of the concession side of it.
Speaker 4:Yes. So when we redid the concessions last time, it was 2013. So back in 2013, again, we had 1.3 million inplanements. This year we'll have almost 2.5 million inplanements, almost 5 million total passengers. So that's how many more people we have going through that facility, and we really haven't updated it substantially, other than expanding the checkpoint, and so we're really excited. We have our concession contracts, which are 10 years.
Speaker 4:So an outside company comes in, invests capital into building out the facilities at the airport so the Bardonnay, the Einstein bagels and so we do a request for proposals and we base our decisions on a number of factors. Revenue is certainly one of them, investment in the facility is another one, but also creating a sense of place and making the Boise airport look like Boise. So when you land here or you depart from here, you know that you're in Boise, you're not a generic airport. You know that you're in Boise, you're not at generic airport X, y, z and so we will have new concessions coming in and Barden A will stay, which I'm excited about. But I'm really excited to see Einstein's bagels be replaced with Blue Sky Bagel, a local Boise favorite, and then we'll also have the Waffle Me Up I don't know if you've ever been to their store over by the Capitol, but they do have a storefront in downtown Boise.
Speaker 4:Amazing waffles and breakfast is a big push at the airport because most of our flights leave early in the morning, so breakfast is incredibly important.
Speaker 1:And what space are they going into? No, there's going to be a new space right in the food court.
Speaker 4:There's artwork there. Going into where smash burgers no there's going to be a new space right in the food court. There's artwork there. I don't know if you if you've thought about it. When you walk through, there's that wooden artwork that has glass hanging from the ceiling that is going to be converted into waffle me up and the still, so we'll have both in that rotunda area there hey, you're getting some of my favorites.
Speaker 4:This is great, so exciting smash burger is going to become Wendy's. Okay, a little more price point, friendly for people who are traveling with families, employees and quick grab and go really easy for Wendy's. And then where Einstein's is is actually going to become a Starbucks. Oh great, so we will have Starbucks. I think that was the question that we got asked the most often.
Speaker 4:When are we getting a Starbucks? So yes, we are getting a Starbucks. Blue Sky Bagel is going to go in where it used to be called Forever Heather. There used to be a women's clothing store over there. So where Forever Heather was is going to be Blue Sky Bagel's Protein Kitchen, which they have in the Salt Lake Airport, and then Pizza Hut will be there.
Speaker 1:Oh, so a lot more offerings.
Speaker 4:So many more offerings.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And then down on B Concourse, where right now it's River City that will be Flying M.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 4:And then on the lower level, in C, we're going to have Talia Flights and Bites, okay, and Push and Pour.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 4:So we'll have a bar and snack area as well as the coffee bar on C.
Speaker 1:And Talia that's from Garden City. Yes, oh great Longtime Boise Idaho companies coming in.
Speaker 4:This is great.
Speaker 1:This is great. When is all this scheduled to happen?
Speaker 4:Our first phase is supposed to open early summer.
Speaker 1:So they're starting.
Speaker 4:Oh, they're starting, yes, and we should be complete by the end of October of this year. There's a lot of work to be done.
Speaker 1:That's exciting.
Speaker 4:And an aggressive timeline, but we need it.
Speaker 1:Those are big, big changes. Well, you hit on it, but I do think it's worth maybe spending a little more time on it. I think it is the front porch to Idaho for a lot of people. It's where they come into. It's the capital city, it's all of those things, and I think you've always done a great job of that, though, right, I mean, I think when you travel all around the country, it's just always so nice to come home and be here, and I mean it's just, it's great.
Speaker 4:The airport really is a reflection of our community. When you think about the airport and we are the front door to our community it's the first place people see and it's the last place people see, and so we want to make sure that it creates a positive image of Boise. You know we don't want people thinking that we're just potatoes in.
Speaker 4:Idaho. We have so many more things that we can offer, and you know whether it's our restrooms, which are incredibly clean because we have a great staff. Our team takes great pride in maintaining our facilities and keeping them updated. We have great partnerships with the Transportation Security Administration, so when you go through Boise checkpoint, people are friendly, yeah, and they're polite.
Speaker 1:And they're not everywhere.
Speaker 4:And they are not everywhere. Yes, and so we do want to.
Speaker 1:It's kind of almost shocking, isn't it?
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because we're just used to it here. Then you go somewhere else and you're like ah, this isn't. I mean I don't want to bag on a couple other close jurisdictions, but it's just different, yes, it is different and they're not too far from us, and I think some of that is just comes from the top and attitude and some of it's probably you're hiring. Idahoans generally aren't Right. They're friendlier, right. The only negative I'm sitting here thinking I'm going to have to tell so we have a longtime family. Were you ever a Seinfeld fan?
Speaker 4:I do remember Seinfeld. Do you remember the?
Speaker 1:soup kitchen Nazi.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, no soup for you. No soup for you.
Speaker 1:So Einstein's Bagel had a guy that worked there. His name was Dave.
Speaker 4:Oh, I know, Dave. Yes, so Einstein's Bagel had a guy that worked there. His name was Dave.
Speaker 1:Oh, I know Dave. Yes, he's a little bit of a curmudgeon. So he would walk up and he'd say and then he had a very serious way of taking your order.
Speaker 4:And he's very loud. Very loud but he has to be.
Speaker 1:And so my kids loved it. So it was the highlight of us flying out is we knew we were not just going to Einstein's, but we were going to see Dave.
Speaker 4:And.
Speaker 1:I cannot tell you over the years how many times it's and like when he's not there it just starts the trip off wrong Cause. Like we can't go interact with Dave. I don't think he's there anymore and they replaced when they started doing the electronic orders a couple of years ago. It was a big disappointment for us. So anyway, when I go back and tell my family that Dave, it's just got to be like the soup Nazi. It's going to be a memory that gets locked in the Alquist vault.
Speaker 4:Well, the vendor that's providing our concessions is staying the same, so they're all provided by Delaware North and Parity's, and so those will remain the same. So many of the employees will continue on, even with the new concession program. And I always remember Dave, because my son's name is David and so, yes, I will pass that along.
Speaker 1:That's funny. Yeah, Dave, if you happen to listen to the podcast. Thank you for taking good care of us for many, many years. Hopefully we see you again Talk a little bit about. Can we talk parking a little bit more Sure, Because there's a couple of things I do think. As you've grown, it's been pretty interesting to watch how efficient it is. So latest addition was the new parking facility and how it connects and everything's great. Now you got employee parking.
Speaker 1:Yes, so you've added how many stalls in the last couple of years. Now you've got employee parking.
Speaker 4:Yes, so you've added how many stalls in the last couple years 2,500.
Speaker 3:And it's almost not enough.
Speaker 4:Wow, yes, yes. And the reason we're adding parking first? Even though it is a revenue generator, that's not why we added it first. The reason we're adding parking first is because, in order to do the terminal expansion, we have to relocate existing parking. So when you think about where the rental cars park today, that's where the new concourse will be. And we can't build concourse A until we move those rental cars. So they'll go into some of the parking so they will go into the new garage that's under construction.
Speaker 4:As you come in airport way, on the right you see a new garage that's going in next to and adjacent to the employee lot employee garage. That is a rental car facility, and so you'll still be able to walk right out of the Boise airport.
Speaker 1:Which is super convenient right.
Speaker 4:And that was by design. No one wants to get on a shuttle bus and go pick up a rental car.
Speaker 1:We were in San Diego two weeks ago. By the way, thank you for that direct flight. We'll talk about direct flights here soon. But what a difference, man. I mean when you got to go, get on a bus and you go, and some places are way more convenient than others, or you go to like even Spokane you have to walk, like if you land Alaska and Spokane, you're walking. I don't know how far. It's a long ways to get to where their rental car location is. Talk about the rental car facility. Does it accommodate everyone? But when you do something like this, you're probably projecting how many years it's going to service the airport. Talk a little bit about that facility, because I think there's a lot of people listening that probably do wonder.
Speaker 4:Yes. So yes, it will accommodate everyone. And the rental car counters that are on the lower level, those will also be located in the garage, and so, if you imagine, as you are a passenger, you will come down the escalator there, pick up your luggage and then go to the rental car, instead of going getting your luggage and then coming back and backtracking to the counter and then going out to the lot, and so this will hopefully be more convenient. There will be a connected walkway that goes right to the garage and it'll be seven levels. The customer service facilities will be in the garage and the ready return will be right there. So, hopefully, super convenient.
Speaker 4:We did issue bonds for that it was. It's about $120 million project so, and it'll take about two years to do.
Speaker 1:And is it under construction?
Speaker 4:It is under construction. I think we're at about the third level of a seven level facility.
Speaker 1:What's going to happen down where the current rental car desks are?
Speaker 4:That will be determined and as part of our next master plan, we're looking at some different options. One thinking about how do we facilitate passenger flow and separate arriving and departing passengers, so is there a potential to have passengers arrive on that lower level through that area? Do we need more of that area for baggage makeup and baggage handling, more baggage peers? So that will be part of our master plan. We're kicking off our next master plan. In fact, this year we just awarded a contract for that. So our last 20-year master plan. We're updating it to reflect the work that we've done over the last five years.
Speaker 1:I want to ask you some questions about that, but I do before we leave parking awesome idea with the valet. How hard of a decision was that? Has it been successful?
Speaker 4:It was a pretty easy decision and it was necessitated by demand because, you may remember, we opened that new garage in 2023, and we added 1,200 new spaces. We did not have enough parking space. The last garage expansion that we did, in 2013, was supposed to last us at least 10 years before we were going to have to reopen the economy lot, and so we had already outgrown the parking garage, already outgrown the economy lot, and we did not have enough spaces. And so I often make the joke with my staff that not only did we add parking, but we also probably saved marriages, because you can imagine, you get to the terminal and the garage is full and you have two spouses yelling at each other.
Speaker 1:I told you we should have gotten here earlier. There was a time before there was like this moment, where there wasn't enough parking and you didn't have valet yet for us, that it was rough because you didn't know for sure, right. And then you would go park out there, and it was yes.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:I can. You're welcome. I can tell you that I was one of those fights, yeah, so that's a big deal. I'll tell you what. It's an incredible service. It's unbelievable now and they're so great and nice and accommodating and so efficient. It's just great.
Speaker 4:And it's the same vendor who operates the garages downtown. Yeah, and I would say a little over a year ago we issued a request for proposals for parking vendors to manage our parking facility, because we don't do that with our own team, we actually contract that out. So we have a management contract and we are using the car park. Car park yes, and so they've been wonderful partners for us.
Speaker 1:We have a couple of downtown garages we own and they're great, good, good people, that's great.
Speaker 4:There's probably some economies of scale there.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think it is, and they get it. They do a wonderful job.
Speaker 4:How much flack have you gotten for moving the waiting area oh my goodness, you know it's interesting because the things that are small are the biggest, are the things that have an outsize impact on the community, and so it's interesting because there's definitely a group of people who are opposed to the move that we've made with the cell phone lot, and then there's other people who are like what are you talking about? It's literally five minutes away. And it is literally five minutes away. We just, you can't park at the curb anymore in.
Speaker 1:Boise, we're too big, so I use that a lot. I'm probably one of the biggest users because my son works remotely here, but but he so he comes back and forth every two weeks and I pick him up every time. And when I heard it was moving, I'm like, oh, how's that going to work, I guess for me. I didn't know where, I know where Curtis is, but I didn't know Curtis was up here. So when I first saw the address, I'm like Curtis, how's that going to work? And then I Googled where it was. I'm like, oh, it's just right there. It works fantastically, by the way.
Speaker 1:Thank you Because by the time someone lands, I mean he'll text me when he gets off the plane and you've got tons of time.
Speaker 4:I timed it. When my husband got off the plane and I was picking him up, it was 11 minutes from the time he texted me that he landed, till he walked out of the building, in fact the argument could be made you're still close enough that you shouldn't leave right away. That is very true.
Speaker 1:Because you're going to get there before they get their bags.
Speaker 4:Yes, if they have bags, you're going to get there before they pick up their bags.
Speaker 1:That's true. I was just reading and hearing some things and I'm like you know it's super efficient and probably where it should have been all along and avoids that whole the line was never long enough anyway. Right, you had people back in the aisle.
Speaker 4:Oh, there was going to be an accident there. We had accidents on the roadway airport roadway and it was definitely a danger, especially at peak times, and so I think it's Well, it works fantastically. People it's changed.
Speaker 1:It's who moved my cheese right.
Speaker 4:The old book from however long ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is changed, it's just changed and it's like, oh, it's different. And then it's like, oh, this works great.
Speaker 4:And there's still things that we have to be thinking about. You know, as we talk about the concourse expansion and potentially adding up to 10 new gates, you know we're going to be looking at. We've expanded the checkpoint, but probably the next pinch point is going to be the curb front because, we're not adding any curb front.
Speaker 4:So how do we address that? Because we're not adding any curb front. So how do we address that? And where do we move different pieces, so that way we can continue to maintain our seamless convenience for the traveling public?
Speaker 1:Before we get into kind of growth and vision. So I don't forget this, because this is one of the things that I find most fascinating. I think people listening will really enjoy hearing this because since I heard it firsthand from you, it makes so much sense to me. One of the things that I think I'm most proud about with you is you are an advocate for the, the small businesses and families in Idaho trying to make their lives better. I mean, you just are, and the way that you do that best is through direct flights, and I believe you've, since you got here, I think you've added 13, 14? I don't know 15, maybe 15?.
Speaker 4:It probably was 13 when we talked about it.
Speaker 1:It's 15.
Speaker 4:But we've added more since we last chatted.
Speaker 1:So you add these direct flights and it really changes things for travelers business travelers, family travelers. It's just a big deal, and talk about the work that goes into that and some of the limitations that are there just because of the way airlines works. The most I'm going to ask you to kind of explain for our audience. But the one that gets everyone is why doesn't Southwest go to Salt Lake?
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:So those are two big questions.
Speaker 4:Those are two big questions, and so I think when we approach air service, there's a couple of things we have to think is, first and foremost, what is the demand? You know, sometimes I'll get someone who'll say why don't we have a nonstop to Wichita? And I think because there's only three people a week who want to go to Wichita no offense to Wichita, but you know it is the airlines are in business. It's not a monopoly. It's, you know, it's not a government subsidized service. Generally. I mean, there is essential air service, but that's a completely different topic for a different, a different podcast.
Speaker 4:So it's you have to make a business case and we have to look at where do they, where do people in Boise want to go and who wants to come to Boise? And then you have to look beyond that and say, based on the airline and their strategy and their network, what makes the most sense. And so we have to recognize that in Boise, you know, there's a lot of places that we can get to really close. You know Seattle, portland, salt Lake. You know we have a number of nonstop destinations to California because of demand, because of proximity. When you start looking east you have to go a lot further to get there. So that means more aircraft time, more crew time, more fuel, and so the expense of those routes gets higher and higher the further you go. So the airlines then spreading a larger cost over the same number of passengers, and so you really have to make the case to them that it's going to be not only is it going to be full, but it's and do you make the case?
Speaker 1:Yes, is that part of your pitch?
Speaker 4:So that would be part of my pitch, and I also have people on my team who do that specific thing and over the time we've evolved who does it, but I'm always directly involved in air service, but it involves demographics and numbers and you walk in and say, hey, this is why we think you'll be successful, because here's our data.
Speaker 4:Yes, it has to be backed by data. The days of going into an airline and saying, hey, we have a nice community, we think you should come here, no pun intended. That doesn't fly anymore. You have to have data and they love to have other data that they can't get from the DOT. So, yes, it's interesting. We've added I think we're up to 27 nonstop destinations from Boise today, and when I started we were at 12.
Speaker 4:So, we've more than doubled the number of nonstop destinations and when you look at our connectivity connectivity is key because we can't fly to every single tiny community from Boise, but if we have good access by going to Seattle or Salt Lake or Denver or Chicago or Dallas or Houston, all of a sudden or most recently, Atlanta- is a huge hub.
Speaker 1:Atlanta was a big one.
Speaker 4:And it's also our furthest east hub, and delta was very skeptical about doing it at first, and now we're up to two flights a day oh wow, that's great so so why so?
Speaker 1:so let's talk, maddie, hey, can you do it? We, I wasn't going to do this, but look up, look up, if I want to go fly to salt lake uh-oh tomorrow. What it would cost me on Delta Salt Lake is a problem. And then the second biggest one is Reno. We started doing work in Reno, the bigger ones that are head scratchers. But you've explained this before. It has to do with a 737 and a Southwest airline and how they do their reboarding.
Speaker 4:Right, so Southwest only flies one aircraft.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 4:They fly the 737. And there's different models of it and different seat configurations, but that's the only aircraft that they fly. So when you fly on one of our other carriers, say you mentioned.
Speaker 3:Delta or Alaska, or whatever.
Speaker 4:They also have smaller regional jets and so the market, for example from Boise to Reno, probably isn't going to support a couple hundred people. We did have Reno back in the day with Southwest, but that was a very different environment where load factors were not as high, fuel costs were not as high and labor costs were not as high. So you could have fewer passengers because your costs were lower.
Speaker 1:But once those passengers on a 737 dip, then it just doesn't happen.
Speaker 4:It doesn't make sense. You have to have more than probably an 80% load factor to have a route be successful.
Speaker 1:So that's not horrible. That's March.
Speaker 4:Oh, there you go.
Speaker 1:Go sooner than that, though we're cheating here. That's 389 round trip 389 round trip. It's not.
Speaker 4:That does not seem bad.
Speaker 1:That does not seem bad compared to try to fly like next week.
Speaker 4:Anytime you try to fly on a very short timeline, you're always going to pay a premium.
Speaker 1:Every single time, no matter which airline it is, no but except for like going. So where we go, a lot for business we go to. Spokane a lot. We go to Salt Lake a lot and we've been trying to go to Reno. We actually stopped. It's such a pain to fly to Reno.
Speaker 4:I'll mention that to my airline by the time you go.
Speaker 1:By the time you go, you know we, we drive, and then that's got its own deal right. But all right, here you go. So what, what is it like? That's not bad, hey, rebecca look all right, we've had good news on the movie of the uh of the cell phone area. Now and now it's not horrible, but that is why they don't fly there, right.
Speaker 4:Yes, it has to do with.
Speaker 1:You've got Delta kind of, is the main Salt Lake direct flight.
Speaker 4:Delta has a hub in Salt Lake, and so whenever you're flying to and from an airline's hub, I think your costs are always going to be higher. I would note that several years ago, alaska did have service to Salt Lake and added competition, and I think what happened is many people just continued to fly Delta and so so then they stopped doing it, and so then you know.
Speaker 1:Spokane has remained very inexpensive. Why Spokane is always great.
Speaker 4:Again, that's primarily in Alaska route back and forth, and I think that Smaller planes. Smaller planes. Again, that's primarily an Alaska route back and forth and I think that smaller planes and Boise is a focus city for Alaska Airlines and so they do tend to flow traffic between Spokane and Boise. And also Alaska has introduced some other nonstops from Boise, including Bozeman, orlando, sacramento, orange County.
Speaker 1:Oh, there's a nonstop to Bozeman now.
Speaker 4:There's a nonstop. It's seasonal. It started December 19th. It's performing very, very well as well, as the Orlando flight started in January and that's continuing to perform very well.
Speaker 1:For our listeners. What are some of the latest ones? Because I didn't know.
Speaker 4:Bozeman, Bozeman was the most recent one and Orlando were the most recent ones, and then the other ones have primarily been additional frequencies on existing routes or larger aircraft. But you know, to your question about growing air service, one of the ways we grow air service is by the introduction of seasonal service. That then the season gets longer and longer until it's year round. Or in the case of Atlanta, we added one frequency. It performed really well. They added a second frequency and that's how you grow air service. I mean, the days of bringing in a new airline are pretty slim. There's not that many airlines out there we have well, you touched on that for us.
Speaker 4:So right now you have the big ones and are they doing pretty well again yes, they are doing very well in boise, I think nationwide. I think we need to continue to monitor the airline industry because they are seeing tremendous increases in costs. One, they're having a challenge getting aircraft delivered, so aircraft delivery is limiting capacity, but also higher crew costs. If you remember, during COVID a lot of airlines opted for offered early retirement options. Many people took them. You can't just replace a pilot. You know the same way off the street that you might replace someone else, so there's kind of a lag time. So we've had an increase in crew costs, increase in fuel costs, so all of those things add up.
Speaker 1:But you have so you have Delta, so we have Delta United, we have Alaska, alaska.
Speaker 4:Yeah, alaska, american, delta, united, southwest. Those are all of the main carriers. Those carriers together, nationwide represent about 85% of the market share for domestic travel. So when you think about who's left, there's not a lot of other players. So we also have Allegiant, we have Spirit, we have Avello and we have Sun Country, seasonally operating from Boise.
Speaker 1:Okay, Great, well, that's awesome. So we have nine airlines, so the days of bringing in another airline.
Speaker 4:there's pretty limited options. I mean, what's out there? We have JetBlue. Frontier Breeze is a new low-cost carrier. That's maybe a potential, but opportunities are pretty limited for bringing in new carriers and then as far as Idaho travel. Yes.
Speaker 1:Idaho Falls to Boise.
Speaker 4:We did have that service briefly again with Alaska. It was not, it wasn't profitable, it didn't break even. We do have service to Lewiston and also to Moscow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my kids used to. Here's a scary airline story. So my kids used to. My son was a jazz guitarist and they would go to the Lionel Hampton Music Festival up in the University of Idaho in the winter and we had a really tight turnaround time. So we flew, flew and it was the scariest commercial island flight we've ever been on. It was Alaska, but it. It was crazy. But we ended up making it and back, but yeah, I, that's the only time. And we landed in Lewiston and then you, you stayed on the plane and then you landed in Moscow.
Speaker 4:It uh yeah, that's one thing worth noting. Uh, several years ago in Boise and you may have experienced this but not known what happened but we upgraded our instrument landing system, so now you can land in Boise in very, very low visibility because of the technology that we have. Oh, I didn't know that, and so you probably remember back in the day flying into Boise, getting here and having them say visibility is not good enough, we're going to divert and go back to Salt Lake.
Speaker 4:I don't know if you've noticed or wherever you're, you know. Whatever the closest diversion would be. Uh, now we have better technology and better instrumentation and that's why it does. I won't say it never happens, but it doesn't happen as much as it used to. That's great.
Speaker 1:Let's talk expansion. So, so many people may not. So you have two runways, but you have a third runway. That is functional, right, you use it now for training and other things. Right, and it's on the South side of Gowan.
Speaker 4:It is.
Speaker 1:So, and and you, just you started by saying hey our 20 year master plan became our five-year work plan. So, we're in the. You're doing your new 20 year plan. Became our five-year work plan, so you're doing your new 20-year plan. What are the next big?
Speaker 4:things for the airport. Well, the next big thing is going to be the concourse expansion, and so, if you can picture it, as you go through the terminal checkpoint, most of the time you're going to the left to go to concourse B or you're going to the lower level, which is concourse C. If you look to your right, there's nothing there. You know, over by Barden A, that is where Concourse A will be, and so we're working on the design for up to 10 new aircraft parking positions. So we're going to start construction this spring on an aircraft parking apron because that's going to be the first piece of that. We can't do all of the work again, as I mentioned, because we have rental cars there and we also have construction going on there in that area for the new rental car garage, but that will be the next thing that we're working on is the concourse.
Speaker 4:We have a number of airfield projects that we're doing that will enable commercial development, for commercial hangars, corporate hangars that we're working on. We have a number of airfield projects taxiway realignments, construction, runway overlays. The third runway that you mentioned is probably at least 10 years out. When we did our last master plan, it was what we considered to be beyond the planning horizon, so beyond 20 years. I think this time we'll see that it will be within the planning horizon, in part because of the growth that we're seeing, in part because of the runway configuration that we have, but that runway is completely separate from the rest of the airfield, meaning there's no taxiway. So you could land there but you can't get back to the terminal. So, to put it in perspective, when we looked at it, probably in 2015, 2016, it was about $100 million to build the bridge over Gowan Road to get to that third runway.
Speaker 1:Every once in a while, I will hear someone say that you would like the runway to be longer. Is that true?
Speaker 4:The third runway is shorter than the other two.
Speaker 1:yes, but the other two are the same thing, the other two we can land just about any size aircraft.
Speaker 1:And the other one's the one. And then one other big question on your expansion A lot of cities. It's got to be hard because when you start a city you're probably not thinking 50 years ahead, right, Right, or 100 years ahead, head. We've been pretty lucky compared to a lot of other places because you have had real thoughtful growth plans and you have a lot of property south of Gowan In your 50-year timeline is our location of our airport. This is where it's going to be, versus some of these other cities that have to just move locations because of growth. What does that look like in your mind?
Speaker 4:I think our city has done a phenomenal job of planning ahead and ensuring the proper zoning. We do have a very few number of homes that are within our what we call our 65 day night noise level, which is the decibel reading. And you know, we have probably a couple hundred homes that were built before we had the proper zoning in place. But for the most part most of the homes are outside of what we would consider to be our impact area for noise. And even around, as you mentioned, around that third runway, we own substantial property to the south, and we've purchased property both east and west of the airport.
Speaker 4:So we're in great shape. We're in great shape. I don't envision us moving the Boise airport. We have so much investment in infrastructure into the airport. We have proper zoning around the airport. I think it's important that we continue to maintain that zoning and that we hold fast on, you know, not allowing encroachment, which is very hard when you have a housing shortage in your community, but it is important that we maintain that zoning so that way we can continue to keep the airport where it is. I think that's one of the greatest things about Boise is you can literally be downtown in 10 minutes from the airport.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it's incredible, it's just and I do think you've said it, but let me say it again I think there's been really good, thoughtful leadership for a long time. That lands us in some of these positions we find ourselves in and we probably don't stop and look back enough and say, wow, that was a good job, that was great. Well, you've been an incredible leader. Hey, I know you're passionate. This time has gone by way, way too fast. But I know you're super passionate about Treasure Valley, about Idaho, about what goes on here. Treasure Valley, about Idaho, about what goes on here. I know you're involved in a lot of things.
Speaker 4:What does this place mean to you and your family? Well, it's interesting because I think I mentioned to you at the beginning of this that we didn't move when we first considered it, probably in 2008, 2009. And I thought, wow, I'm not sure about relocating, you know, being from New England, but my family and I just love it here. This is, you know, this has been our home for the last 13 years. This is where we raised our children. And you know, we've had other family members who've moved to Boise because we moved to Boise and they came here and they were like, oh, who've moved to Boise because we moved to Boise and they came here and they were like, oh, boise is a really nice place. I didn't know. So, um, yeah, boise is a very special place. We love all the things that Boise offers, whether it's, you know, skiing or hiking. I love the green belt, you know, just being able to go out and walk my dog on the green belt. All the parks that we offer have to offer here in our community.
Speaker 1:It really is incredible place. It is a very special place, well rebecca like. But the one amenity that makes this so great is the airport, and and thank you. I've been wanting to have you on for a long time, just because it's awesome for people to know how much planning and thoughtful leadership goes into having we take it for granted. I mean, you come in, you in, you leave, you go out, but it's so.
Speaker 1:You just have to fly anywhere else in the country to realize how special that part of our city is, and it is because of great leadership. It's because of you and I don't say this lightly. I've been around a lot of leaders. You're incredible.
Speaker 4:So thank you for what you do, for your example, for the time you provide from from a leadership perspective to make this place great well, thank you for your leadership because you certainly have had a tremendous impact on our region, in our community and you know, I know you've jokingly said that you're going to always be remembered for top golf, but uh, so many other projects that it will always be top golf though, right, I mean, uh, okay, rebecca, thank you for coming on.
Speaker 1:Uh, really appreciate it, and if there's anything we can ever do for you, let us know. But uh, this was great, appreciate it.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much Thanks everybody.