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Ever Onward Podcast
The Ever Onward Podcast is your go-to business podcast, offering engaging discussions and diverse guests covering everything from business strategies to community issues. Join us at the executive table as we bring together industry leaders, experts, and visionaries for insightful conversations that go beyond the boardroom. Whether you're an entrepreneur or simply curious about business, our podcast provides a well-rounded experience, exploring a variety of topics that shape the business landscape and impact communities. Brought to you by Ahlquist.
Ever Onward Podcast
BSU President Tromp to Vermont – A Legacy of Impact | Ever Onward - Ep. 66
Dr. Marlene Tromp joins the Ever Onward podcast to reflect on her transformative six-year tenure as president of Boise State University—one that has reshaped the institution’s trajectory and deepened its impact on students, Idaho’s workforce, and the broader community. Now, as she prepares for her next chapter as the newly announced president of the University of Vermont, Dr. Tromp leaves behind a legacy of innovation, access, and resilience.
Under her leadership, Boise State achieved a 39% improvement in graduation rates while maintaining one of the lowest tuition costs in the nation—where more than half of students graduate with zero federal loan debt. She spearheaded initiatives like the Community Impact Program and Hometown Challenge, ensuring graduates have clear pathways to careers in Idaho, with 70% of students staying in the Treasure Valley. Strategic partnerships with institutions like the Idaho National Laboratory have positioned the university as a leader in cybersecurity and nuclear energy research, creating high-value career opportunities for students.
At the heart of her leadership is a philosophy grounded in resilience, compassion, and the belief that education transforms lives. She shares how these values were shaped by her mother’s unwavering strength and the challenges she faced while caring for her mother with Alzheimer’s and her sister with brain cancer—all while navigating her own health battles. Despite suffering permanent nerve damage during childbirth and being told she might never walk unassisted again, Dr. Tromp fought her way back to running, embodying the perseverance she instills in her students.
As she prepares to bring her vision and leadership to the University of Vermont, this episode serves as a powerful reflection on the impact she has had at Boise State and the guiding principles she will take with her. As Dr. Tromp puts it: “Courage generates courage. The more love you give, the more love you get.”
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Today on the Ever Onward podcast, we have a very special guest and friend the president of Boise State University, dr Marlene Tromp.
Speaker 1:I'm re-recording this because we recorded her podcast a couple weeks ago and then the big news just came out this week that Dr Tromp will be taking a new position as the president of Vermont University. I think the release of this podcast is at a perfect time because for those of us who have had the privilege of being her friend and watching her lead and following her example here in Idaho over the last several years, this will be a great chance to listen to some of the impact that she's made and hear her story of what she's done here in Idaho. She's an incredible person and just has done so much for everyone here and for those of you who will be receiving and welcoming Dr Marlene Trump to Vermont, hopefully this podcast can introduce you to this incredible leader who will now be leading your university. So I wanted to rerecord that and tell her thank you and express our appreciation at the start of this for her coming on and, most importantly, for her contribution here to the state and everyone the families of Idaho. So thank you, dr Trump.
Speaker 1:Prior to the Dr Trump podcast. We'll have an AllQuest update from Mark Cleverley and Kekoa Nawahine Good morning we're here with an AllQuest update.
Speaker 2:I'm Mark Cleverley, chief Leasing Officer, with Allquist, keiko and Alahine also on the leasing team. Yeah, we want to talk about two things this morning. First of all, we had some really positive good news this last week. We always kind of talk about every week kind of we get positive news, but this project in Reno that we're doing and I want to talk to you specifically about it because you're kind of running that project but we had good news. We're like full steam ahead, moving forward, and now it's like game on, so walk us through that real quickly. And then I want to talk a little bit more about kind of motivational stuff for you like in your career and kind of what makes you tick.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, we're really excited about Reno. You know a lot of back and forth. It was, you know, kind of going through bankruptcy court there for a while and a lot of uncertainty regarding the project. But you know, working on that with with the team over there and, like you said, most recently got kind of a clear path forward and the green light to to start working on it and so, um, massive project, and you know mostly what we've done here at allquist is ground up development.
Speaker 3:Um, and what's exciting about that one is redevelopment of the old Harris Casino in downtown Reno and bringing in, you know, this new wave and push of revitalizing the downtown scene, especially for office and retail and just a true mixed-use project where you can live, work and play. You know they've got multifamily housing in there. We've got the whole ground floor of restaurants and retail and then office up above that and a hotel that's right there and just a lot of opportunities to come in and to create another cornerstone of downtown that's. You know a lot of people that are familiar with that area, are familiar with the where it used to be the old Harrahs, and so to come back in to, to revamp it, to push back towards a revitalization of the downtown scene. Is is really exciting for us to be able to come in and help out with that yeah, it's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2:I mean it's a total square footage of that project. It's like 1.2 million square feet yeah right and it's a, it's a beast. And we always kind of tease tom, you're like you get us into these things that are like so hard and difficult, but that's what kind of keeps all of us like motivated. Right is a project like this, that is hard right, but guess what, we're going to take it on and we're going to tackle this sucker.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's what makes it fun, too, is you're solving different problems, you're collaborating with different groups and bringing to life a vision that a lot of people have and something that's really needed for the downtown area, and so it's fun to be able to, like you said, just tackle these, these difficult challenges, but that's where you can turn something great, um yeah, into so we're excited.
Speaker 2:it reminds me a lot of sydney center plaza downtown when you know, vrt was looking, boise State was looking downtown and GBAD was looking to expand, and how do you make it work? And then it's kind of the same thing. Tommy was like, hey, let's go put it all in one building and let's go buy the US Bank building and it's got a lot there. So it's kind of reminiscent of that project and how hard that was and this is going to be hard, but there's not a better team in my mind that's going to go make this a success.
Speaker 3:Oh, 100%. And that's what is nice, right is. You've kind of had that background of experience here at Allquist that have done something very similar. You know, their state and their city officials came down and visited, saw all of that and really appreciated the way that our downtown is set up and how those projects specifically can be integrated into their downtown and how they want to kind of mirror that over there as well. There's a lot of similarities between the markets for sure. So that background experience and former projects down here that that's been done by Alquist is is is a great start to go and do the same thing and implement those same strategies over there in Reno.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so with that hard project, uh, going to take a lot of time and a lot of energy, a lot of passion. Why so? And we specifically put you on this Um and and and looking back now, like I'm like Kako is perfect for this because of your, your past, like your background of, of succeeding and going through hard, hard times and making decisions and and we don't need to go into all the details, we don't have enough time, but talk a little bit about your past and why. Why that has made you successful now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and just speaking of hard times and success, there's a quote from Tony Robbins that I love. He says good times create weak people. Weak people create hard times, hard times create strong people, and strong people create good times. And I think you know. And one more quote from him that he says the biggest problem that people have is they think they're not supposed to have it.
Speaker 3:And I just really like that, because it's through these challenges, it's through pushing ourselves outside of our comfort zone, that we're able to accomplish and become the type of people, one that we're capable of becoming, two that we want to be, and just capable of the greatness that everyone has inside of them.
Speaker 3:And so, without those challenges, without those problems, without things to push yourself outside of your limit, you can't accomplish the same things. And so for me, you know, growing up I've got four brothers and a sister that's just as competitive, and growing up in that environment, it's just all we've known. There's two things that I would say that have been pivotal that my parents have taught me, and one it's my dad just expecting your best, expecting the best out of us in everything that we do, whatever it is expecting the best out of us in everything that we do, whatever it is. You know a lot of that was sports growing up, just because we loved it and that was just our everyday life. But expecting your best and putting out your best every day was a requirement. There was no other way to go about what you do, and so that needs to translate into everything that you're doing. One time in high school it was a basketball game. It was not one of my better games.
Speaker 2:You had a bad game, no way.
Speaker 3:Not one of my better games. I would always get the coaching from my dad afterwards. Talk to him. Something that he said at that point really stuck with me. He said if anybody was watching you out there, do you think they'd say that you gave it everything you had? Do you think that they'd say that you worked really hard out there and they'd say, oh, that person really gets after it. And it wasn't that type of game for me.
Speaker 3:But that really stuck is, if somebody's watching the way that I carry myself and what I do, what are they going to say? And, more importantly, how am I going to feel about the product that I'm putting out, whether it's in sports, whether it's now in commercial real estate, or as a husband, as a father? What am I going to feel about myself and what I'm doing and the effort that I'm putting into that, and is that going to be reflected among the people that I'm around? And so, just carrying that mentality, I've always wanted to push myself and knowing that I was capable. The other thing. So I said two things.
Speaker 3:The other thing that my mom has done a really good job of is just instilling self-belief and expecting your best and then believing that, um, you're capable of whatever it is that you want. Accomplishing, you know, those two things has has served me really well in my life throughout, especially my athletic career. Um, but just everything that, the way that I approach it, I want to one know that when I'm getting into something say this project for Reno now, for example, since we're talking about it that people around me have confidence to know that I'm going to put in everything that I can into the project, and then in myself as well, believing that this is going to be a success. That even though there's challenges and obstacles and different things that you need to figure out, there's a way to figure it out.
Speaker 3:Absolutely and taking responsibility and control for everything that you have the capability of doing. There's a lot of things that are outside of our control, but what's within your control that you can give everything to. And approaching it with that type of mentality is really the way that I try to approach the things that I'm doing in life.
Speaker 2:Love it, love it, love it. Well, it's going to take a lot of effort down there in Reno, yeah, but we know we're up for the task right. It's going to be awesome. We're excited for it.
Speaker 3:We are excited. Yeah, it's been great so far and we're excited to see how it really comes together. You know it's crazy. People don't understand how much effort and work goes in behind the scenes before you even start to see construction going on and changes and tenants going in. So we're excited to see the project come together.
Speaker 2:Okay, sweet. Thanks, man. Thank you Appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Dr Trump, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 4:I'm so glad to be here.
Speaker 1:I was just saying. You know, sometimes we have people on that we know pretty good and sometimes it's all new. But I'm so excited to just catch up again and appreciate you so much.
Speaker 4:Thank you.
Speaker 1:You've been so kind to me and appreciate you so much. Thank you, you've been so kind to me. We've got some connections with your Finnish heritage.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And my son spent some time in Finland and you're always so kind to ask about him and how he's doing. Then I share my stories with him of your heritage and there's that great connection. So thank you for always being so personal and kind. It's probably part of your leadership style. Well and yours too. You are a seventh president of Boise State. Yes sir, I can't believe I was just looking at coming into this. This is year.
Speaker 4:Six Year six. It's crazy, isn't?
Speaker 1:it. It goes by so quickly. Oh, and there's so many things I want to talk about today, but I did just want to start there with your leadership and the way you go about it, because I think connection and being present with the people you lead is part of what you do. Talk about leadership and how it's been important to you and just being the president of the university and the responsibility, but I know you just love it.
Speaker 4:I do love it and actually it's a nice segue from that Finnish heritage to talk about it. So the two principles I would say I operate under and it's not typical, I think, for a person in leadership to talk about the role of love, but I really think it's a fundamental part of my leadership I really believe that you have to care about what you're doing, you have to love the work, you have to love the people that are putting in their time and energy and even the people who are critical of you. You have to really love what they bring and think about it and try to understand it.
Speaker 4:And and that means I have to care about every student, every faculty, every staff person. It means I have to care about everyone in our legislature, our governor. It means I have to care about the entire complex of people that we serve our alumni, care about the entire complex of people that we serve our alumni, our supporters and that is a very powerful commitment. But the job is also intellectually complex and there are real challenges that come. I mean, gosh, I've been president through COVID. Yeah, I've been president through a lot of budget cuts from our legislature. I've been president through a lot of support we've gotten from groups like our legislature, people standing up for us, and I've had to navigate a lot of really complex things. Right now we're navigating all the new executive orders and all the dear colleague letters that are coming in that have changed federal funding, which supports a lot of our research, and so the other part of that is SISU, and that's a Finnish concept that means unflappable tenacity in the face of insurmountable odds.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 4:So it means that you just keep working really hard, no matter how tall the mountain is, no matter what you have to climb. You just keep fighting the good fight for the things that you love and care about. So I'm driven by mission and I have a lot of tenacity and I love to problem solve.
Speaker 1:You know when we were talking before and you brought that word up and I've since done some digging because there's not an English word that matches it.
Speaker 4:Right, they don't translate it.
Speaker 1:They don't translate it. But isn't that leadership? I mean, isn't that life, a chance to talk to people I love or care about? A lot of times it's my kids. I think we go through this wonderful experience, surrounding ourselves with relationships and passions that we love, and then the expectation that we are climbing a mountain that tomorrow is going to be a challenge, and we kind of if it is love and passion and drive, and we're doing something for a reason that authentically is us in our heart, mind and soul, and then we're doing something for a reason that authentically is us in our heart, mind and soul, and then we're planning for the challenges of the next day. They're coming and I always tell people, hey, if you don't have them right now, they're around the corner.
Speaker 1:That's right, I love the analogy of uh, uh, you know, hey in the barn, right? Jim Everett said this last time when he was on like it's it's hay in the barn. It's there because I know I'm going to need it when times are tough. And I think that mentality is so refreshing that, hey, I don't know what's coming today or tomorrow, because it's going to come and I'm ready to do it. About your day-to-day being the CEO of a university and all of the sources of funds and uses of funds and how that changes. It's got to be a constant challenge. I mean, building buildings is pretty easy.
Speaker 4:We do that too, you do that too right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there is the campus planning too, but it's hey, where's the dollars coming in and how are we spending them? And it's pretty predictable In your world of higher ed with the changes that are now and ever evolving. It's also a kind of moving target every day today and trying to figure out what's tomorrow bring. That's got to be a challenge.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, and when you think about just athletics which is just one part of my portfolio, just this one little part. If you think about athletics, my gosh the world has changed in athletics On its head. It's so different than it was Like five years ago. I think there were many of us who saw this coming, but there was no way to plan for it, because you couldn't tell what illegal, like go to jail.
Speaker 1:Illegal five years ago now is if you're not doing it and doing it more than the next guy. So so it wasn't just that it was coming, that it was just so drastically different from what was done before. And and I think you hear, everyone hears that this is not sustainable either and it's going to continue evolving and changing because with these changes come the unintended consequences and you're dealing with all those things too.
Speaker 4:Um, and that's just one part of the portfolio of being the president right, which is athletics, and and I think there's also, you know, there's a lot of complexity in how we're funded.
Speaker 4:You know, uh, uh. Over the last couple of decades, state investment and this isn't Idaho, this is the entire country state investment in public higher education has declined by about 30%, and the cost burden to students and their supporters, whether that's family or friends that are supporting them to go to college, the cost burden on them, has risen about 30%. So it's directly proportional. So in some state constitutions across the country, the state constitution says that public higher education should be as close to free as possible. But that is just a vanishing dream now, even though it's in the constitution for most states, or many states. And so what we're seeing now? Because states are obliged to manage so many more things than they used to be and the demands are so much greater, their resources are going into other things, but that shifts that cost burden which makes education so much more expensive for people. At Boise State and in the state of Idaho we've done a really good job of keeping those costs down, so we cost much less. We're the sixth lowest tuition in the country we cost much.
Speaker 1:Six lowest tuition in the country state of Idaho.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and so we cost a lot less than most public institutions do, which is why there's so much demand out of state to come to a place like Boise State. But our mission is still to serve Idaho students and it is a service to bring in those students because, you know, 70% of the people who graduate from Boise State stay and work in the Treasure.
Speaker 1:Valley. I love that, which makes total sense, right. Yeah, like you develop relationships. Yeah, it's your formative years where you're learning and making these lifelong connections that end up being where and what you want to do and who you want to do with it. So they stay here.
Speaker 4:And that's why we want Idaho kids to go to school in Idaho. Yeah, because that keeps them here too.
Speaker 1:Well, the beautiful thing there's a lot of things I want to talk to you about, but I think about Boise State, and it's always been a hallmark of your leadership is connecting to the business community too. Yes, how real can you make those degrees? And I want to get into your results.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:But if you look at the way you serve the community to try to keep those kids here, that's where the magic happens, right? Yes, so if Idaho kids can see a line of sight through Boise State to Idaho jobs, that's the win, win, win, win for everyone, right?
Speaker 4:That's right, because talent pipeline.
Speaker 1:I bring this up a lot, but when I was on like the United Way board 20 years ago and all of the things we would always talk about, where's the talent going to come from? Where's the talent going to come from? You look 20 years ago at our median wages and where we were and just the ability to keep our kids here for workforce, yes, um, now we have this boom and you have all of these jobs and businesses coming here and you have the ability now to for our kids to say, oh, there are all my opportunities for jobs and they're in my community yes so then the connector is Boise State.
Speaker 1:the connector is, and there's where I go and that's how I connect with the community. I think you've done a masterful job and talk about some of those results you've had of connecting Boise State to community, to these businesses, and some of the results, I mean in the middle of a lot of challenges. Just look at the data.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I thank you for asking that question and I'll start with the results first and then work my way back. I thank you for asking that question and I'll start with the results first and then work my way back, because I think it's when I'm at a higher ed conference if I talk about how much we've improved our graduation rate, people gasp. So it's a big deal to improve your graduation rate. 1% or 1.5%, that's a big deal. We've improved our graduation rate in the last five years 39%, wow, 39% 39% Wow 39% 39.
Speaker 4:So that means more of those folks are getting their degree more quickly, more efficiently, getting out into the job market, bringing their talents out into the world. They're not spending as much money on their education because they're which is really kind of the Idaho way right, absolutely.
Speaker 1:How do I get from where I'm at to my job in an efficient way? I'm not going into this tremendous debt we hear about in higher ed. Yes, and I'm into a job that connects my passions with my future and my ability to raise my family here.
Speaker 4:Yes, and one of the great facts that I always love to give about what it costs to go to Boise State for an in-state student. So when the chair of the San Francisco Federal Reserve, mary Daly, came in toward the state of Idaho, she asked kids, why aren't you going to college? And they said, well, because I have to buy a pickup truck. So we looked at the data. So 52% of students who go to Boise State have $0 in federal loan debt when they graduate Zero, it's unbelievable. And of the students who do so, just that other percentage that do have some debt their debt is less for all four years than $20,000.
Speaker 4:So what that means is you could buy a pickup truck and a half with the amount of money that it would cost you. In fact, I looked up what vehicle costs that little. It's a Mitsubishi Mirage, my friend, and it is the least expensive vehicle on the market now.
Speaker 1:And that is not the norm. I mean, I don't know the data, but I mean if you look around the country, those numbers have got to be staggering, and the debt that people take on and the ability to get out and make a living and then provide for your family. Now we have other challenges here because of housing, which is now the next thing, but talent jobs staying here, figuring that out, largely because of the vision, direction and leadership of Boise State, which is our, you know, it's our urban university, it's downtown, it connects to the business community. Can you speak a little bit more to? One of the other things I love that you've done is, as the economies change and as new companies come, you're always at the leading edge of connecting with those companies.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's very important. If we want to prepare our students for the workforce and to meet those workforce demands in our community, we have to figure out what those industries need. So, for example, I brought in cybersecurity professionals and said help us think about how we need to design our degrees. So it wasn't just people who were academic cybersecurity professionalists or computer science engineers, it was people working in industry helping to advise us. We work really closely in our health care education with the health care professionals all across our community thinking about what does it actually mean for a student to be prepared? But you know that's true in every single degree area we offer. But you know that's true in every single degree area we offer.
Speaker 4:So even if you come, you know this narrative of you're a philosophy major, you'll never get a job. You'll live in your parents' basement forever. That's actually not true, because what we do is we build in. We're one of the only universities I've ever known to do this. We build in career education as a fundamental part of your curriculum. You're doing it in your classes in your freshman year, your sophomore year, your senior project is going to. Your senior capstone course is going to consider that, and a lot of those opportunities are ways to connect out with business and historically I'm a Victorianist. Historically people got degrees in philosophy and classics and literature to become bank presidents, because it makes you a big thinker.
Speaker 1:It's the yin and the yang thing of your brain, right? It's like it makes you a better business person. It makes you better at the things you do right.
Speaker 4:Yes, and so we can get them the technical skills on the you know, with like work, you, which is a four credit um work opportunity with internships, with internships, with those career connections, work that we're doing. But we can train your mind to be nimble and adaptive and for you to be an innovator. And we engage a lot of students in research, active research with faculty members, which also prepares them for the world outside of the academy, which also prepares them for the world outside of the academy, and so those connections to our business community and understanding from them what they need is a critical driver for us and helps us reshape what we do for our students.
Speaker 1:I love it. When I ran for governor, there were a few things I was frankly embarrassed that I didn't know, and I'm going to get to one of them and they were on the long list, by the way.
Speaker 1:Because, you spend two years going around the state and in places you just I mean, and one of the things is the people and beauty and business of our state was just remarkable. But then also you would have these aha moments. You go, I had no idea. One of my aha moments was the INL. Yes, I ended up visiting it probably five times, but the first time I went I remember getting a little bus coming back to my car thinking holy smokes, I missed this. I had no idea.
Speaker 1:So for those listening, and if you're kind of on the eastern side of the state, you know everything about the INL. But if you're in the western side, where most of our population is, idaho National Laboratories is a huge deal yes, a big, big deal and tremendous leadership and tremendous opportunity yes, especially for higher ed, to connect with those jobs and those people and that technology. It pretty much leads the country in cybersecurity. When I thought cybersecurity, I was thinking like different kind of cyber. This is like grid security. This is big stuff. It leads the nation in the small nuclear reactor research and where we're heading with energy and you're connected with them.
Speaker 4:Absolutely Talk about that partnership because that more cybersecurity professionals than Idaho, because with the Idaho National Lab here as our partner and as our opportunity to connect, we have the assets to be the state everyone in the country looks to for cybersecurity, and cybersecurity is really important for national security and that small cell nuclear is really important for our energy future and for national security. So this really important national lab is this gem in the state and so we've been partnering very robustly with them on both fronts for a long time. But we have one of our scientists, david Estrada, who works very closely with INL. He just got a PCASE award, which is the President's Award for Early Career Scientists, and there's just a handful of people that get these in the entire country. So people who are doing pathbreaking research are working with the INL and working with companies like Micron and helping to advance not just our students, not just the state, but our entire nation. This is really transformative work, big stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember sitting one of the visits. They had a little conference room. You sat in and I was talking to one of their leaders conference room. You sat in and I was talking to one of their leaders and I said, man, if I was a, I'm not that smart, but if I was like one of the higher ed people in this state, I think I would like park a bus in the parking lot and say we're claiming our, we're staking our ground here because we want a relationship with you, because it's so overwhelming. It is higher ed. The other thing I think of when I think of Boise and your connections. It is higher ed. The other thing I think of when I think of Boise and your connections. We have a tremendous amount of entrepreneurship here and you think of these legacy companies. We had Andy Skoggan on who was talking about the Albertson story and you think of just Albertson.
Speaker 1:Do you think of the Simplots? Yes, you butchered on recently and you talk about the Simplots story. You think of MK, when it was like the world's largest construction company that was from here HP, one of its original sites and then what happened is all of these spinoff businesses, and you mentioned Micron I'm going to hit Micron in a second but there's all of this ingenuity and creative entrepreneurial juices that just flow here from these legacy companies and a lot of these legacy individuals who have now gone on to start their new companies and everything going on, and I just love the way you're plugged in with all of that here.
Speaker 4:Yes, and in fact I actually it's. One of the things I love about the West is that entrepreneurial mindset.
Speaker 4:And you know, boise State has been repeatedly ranked in the top institutions in the country, voted by our peers for innovation, over and over and over again, and it's partly because we think like our community and our business community think, which is how do we think outside the box? How do we make something better and new? We don't want to ask what anyone else has done before, we want to do what's going to work better, and so it's that scrappy, creative, trailblazing mindset that characterizes the West, that also characterizes the university, and that's part of the reason it's such a good fit that those are such good partnerships and we want to know about all those companies. I've created two new positions even since my arrival one that helps our faculty get out and do that engagement and support their research and scholarship, bringing it to these businesses and helping them get better and understanding what kinds of questions they're asking, and another one to build a kind of partnership that allows us to get our students into those places. And so it's about how does the university become increasingly integrated and engaged?
Speaker 1:It's so important, and what I love about it is again go back to what is the impact of that on the families of.
Speaker 1:Idaho. Yes, it's very personal. I mean the fact that you can go to Boise State and have line of sight to those jobs and be plugged into these careers and most and I know this is probably wherever you grow up. You know well, this is a great thing. I want to stay here. I want my kids to stay here. But it is true for the families that are here and for so long it was like how do we get them back? Where do they go? And it just seems like Boise State in the middle of a lot of growth. I mean we have had explosive growth. It has been the partner at the core from a higher ed thing saying we are here to solve these problems and to help the families of Idaho Pretty unique during this explosive growth.
Speaker 4:And I'll tell you what I think everybody wants their kids to have their grandkids right there in their home state so they can all be connected to each other. Right, that's that dream of having your extended family and being able for a young person to start their family and be able to have their own parents watch their kids, which is what my mom did. For me, that's an amazing thing to have that family connectivity. And it's part of the reason, actually, that we built the Community Impact Program, which reaches out into rural communities, asks those communities, asks the business community, local government, nonprofits and community members, what do you need? And then we build that to spec for that community and we bring the university to them and that allows people to stay at home, because there was this fear for a long time of that kind of brain drain, you know, into the city.
Speaker 4:So if you live in Burley, do you worry about your kids going to Boise State Cause you're afraid they're not going to come home. And we also created a program called Hometown Challenge which has young people when they're working on their degree, we support them to go home for the summer so they don't have to get a job at Walmart or something here in town. They can go home and work with their local mayor's office or a local business and bring those talents that they're getting so they can envision themselves moving back home. So we're working really hard to think about how do we help people across the state thrive and keep our communities healthy.
Speaker 1:I love it. Tremendous amount of work. I'm just sitting here as I'm talking to you and I'm thinking about it makes you tired If you think of all the ways you're reaching out to connect Idaho communities, families, businesses and trying to be the glue. That kind of kind of does that. But it's tremendously rewarding too so rewarding.
Speaker 4:And I'll tell you what my favorite day of the year is commencement, which is coming up yeah and my second favorite day of the year is when students come on campus for the first time, and it's orientation, because what I see in both it's, honestly, I think, the best job a person can have in the world. You know, being a doctor is pretty good, tommy.
Speaker 1:It was pretty good. I left it, but it was pretty good. No, this is really good stuff. Hey, you mentioned it, but I want to go a little deeper on something I mean since I've known you talk about your mother.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you talk about your mother and I know I just really want it's, I think, the true mark of a person is how they care and love for the people around them, and I think when you get a glimpse into someone that is an example of that. It's impactful and I think you've impacted me as I've been able to watch since I've known you. You care and love for your mother. Tell us a little bit about that, and I know it might be a little tender.
Speaker 4:I just feel so blessed. So when I was a young professor, I got a call from my mom. She and my dad had retired to Florida and he was in the hospital and she didn't know why. So I jumped on a plane and I flew down and I found my dad at a hospital and he had was getting a lung biopsy, but he was afraid to tell her because he thought it would scare her and he hoped it would be nothing and his lung had collapsed and they kept him.
Speaker 4:And so I, I said to my mom and dad, turned out he. So I, I said to my mom and dad, turned out he had cancer. And I said to my mom and dad well, you just come and live up with me. So I moved them to where I was so I could care for my dad. Um, he passed away when I was pregnant with my son and I just moved my mom in with me and I felt like all they had given me, all the love they had shown me, the opportunity they had given me to go to college, which was a big stretch for my dad as a coal miner and trone miner.
Speaker 1:You grew up in Wyoming right.
Speaker 4:I did. I did in southwest Wyoming and my dad worked for PPNL, which Lisa, our wonderful CEO of Idaho Power, tells me is something like 50% owned by Idaho Power. So my dad was power in Idaho when I was growing up and I've been blessed to have my son grow up in a house where my mom was there every day and my mom lived to the ripe old age of 96. Um, but I cared for her for the last 20 years and, um, she had Alzheimer's and as the disease progressed, um, she did experience some difficulties and I just felt so lucky to be able to hold her hand every day and tell her how much I loved her and she was so proud of the work that we were getting to do here and I brought her to commencement and it was her first commencement ever and you know I talked about how nobody gets through college on their own.
Speaker 4:You always have community that's taking care of you and loving you and that my mom made it possible for me and I asked the students who were graduating to think about and recognize the people that made it possible for them. And then the camera panned over and my mom was there and the crowd just went nuts because, you know, here was this beautiful woman who had made my life possible right there before them and I had a dozen roses for her that I brought to her and I have people stop me on the street still years later and say that was so impactful for them. But I also brought her to football games and she got to get up on the platform by the student section and students would cheer for her and I felt so lucky to give her those experiences and so blessed that my son got to grow up with his grandmother right there in the house. So for me, family is such a high priority and I would have done anything for my mom.
Speaker 1:Well, and for me, I got to tell you publicly, like one of the things being in healthcare and having family and friends that have cared for a parent with Alzheimer's um, it is not easy. Like easy is not on that list, right. And in all of the time that I watched you care for her, marlene, like the fact that you always would smile and share the love with gratitude and never once, even not even a teeny bit, say anything, that was hard. It's a tremendous example to me, because I'm probably not the guy that I would, probably would be complaining. I just, I just am. And so being around someone that like says yes, and you live life with gratitude and with, like, this beauty, that, um, it's really impactful. And I know, uh, when she passed away, um, it's gotta be hard still.
Speaker 4:I mean that's so hard. I miss her every day. Yeah, death is so final. Be hard still. I mean that's so hard.
Speaker 1:I miss her every day. Yeah, death is so final. It's so, um, I don't know that nine kind of thing that just doesn't go away. Uh, it doesn't ever go away cause you just miss them. Um, well, and not to get too personal, but I know you're now taking care of your sister.
Speaker 4:I am, indeed. My um sister was at G just a few months after we lost my mom, was diagnosed with incurable brain cancer, and so the day she called me from the hospital, she had gone in thinking she was dehydrated and they were suddenly admitting her into the ICU. And she called me, and she lived in Florida at the time. My family evidently likes to retire to Florida, and so, um, I got on a plane and flew down there and and I just brought her home with me when her surgery was done, and so we've, you know we've all moved our whole family in together, so now my boy has his aunt there with him.
Speaker 4:But I feel I'm tremendously blessed to get to spend that time with my sister and tremendously blessed to have the privilege of caring for her.
Speaker 1:Well, and I, I I appreciate you sharing that because I think sometimes, um, with very strong leaders in very big positions, and we kind of look at them like they're superhuman, and I think that vulnerability of talking about the challenges that require that sisu in our lives, I just think it's helpful to share that. I just think it's helpful to share that because you know, as you deal, write a book, because it's damn inspiring for people like me to go, oh man, that is awesome and, um, it makes you want to be better.
Speaker 4:You know I'll tell you that what I think about more than anything else is with regard to that love and Sisu. I just want more people to know that courage generates courage. In Finnish cosmology, the way you get more sisu when you're starting to run out is to do it. So you get courage by being courageous. It makes more courage. It's just like love. The more love you give, the more love you get. The more love you have, it makes more courage. It's just like love the more love you give, the more love you get you know the more love you have.
Speaker 1:It's beautiful.
Speaker 4:And so, um, I really I think a lot about growth mindset, and one of the things I tell our students when they come to campus is you will face challenges. It's like you were saying about the hay in the barn you will face challenges, You'll experience things that are painful. You'll have classes that make you feel discouraged, or professors that don't suit your style or life experiences, Someone that you date that decides you don't belong together and your heart is broken. There will be all those kinds of challenges Times when you disappoint yourself because you don't live up to what you think you can do, because you don't live up to what you think you can do. But if you can take those difficult experiences and learn and grow from them, that's what can fuel your forward motion.
Speaker 4:And what growth mindset says is, when you fall down, it's not the act of falling down that shows whether you belong or not. It's getting back up again and not saying ooh, I'm ashamed of that, but saying gosh, how can I learn from that? And looking at other success, and instead of feeling like, oh gee, I wish I could be doing as well as they are, I'm just not that good saying wow, that's inspiring, how can I learn from that, and so that growth mindset and that and that sisu like you can actually generate more courage by being courageous. You can actually generate more courage by being courageous. You can actually generate more growth by being willing to take risks where you might fail. And I think all the time about people I've known over the course of my life the ones who have done the biggest things are the ones who've been willing to take the risks where they might fall down and did, but kept getting back up and kept doing more.
Speaker 4:And I'm so desperately want our students to know if you fail a class, if you fail an exam, and for our community to know. Maybe you've tried to go to school and it didn't work out for you before, but come on back, because we're going to help you figure out new ways to do it. And and that student who didn't do as well as they wanted to do, that doesn't mean you don't belong. We're going to figure out what you are going to be able to be successful at. We're going to give you the support that you need. And so I really think it's all of life right, there's hardship everywhere, but if you approach everything with that open growth mindset and if you. If you can see what you can be grateful for, even in the losses or the lessons or the times that are difficult, then it shifts your whole perspective.
Speaker 1:That is awesome. I wish we could just bottle that up, because that is what makes life worth living actually. And if you can look at life that way, with gratitude and that growth mindset, and, as you were talking, I was just thinking about, I think I've told you I haven't told you this story, I haven't. We have four kids. My youngest daughter, um, she, she, she, um, she came with some challenges, has some learning disabilities and, uh, trying to figure out how to match that with life and figuring out how to just how, how do I, you know, how do I be successful, knowing that I've got these, this challenge that, you know, it's a learning disability, that's there. And and it's been good for me because with our, our two oldest kids, um, never thought about that. You know, go do what you want to do, dream big, whatever, and don't set any limits on it, just go for it. And then, and then, um, with with my daughter, uh, you know, you say, hey, go dream. And then you sit there and you think, oh, how does that fit?
Speaker 1:with some limitations that you're not putting on yourself.
Speaker 4:Right, they're real, yes.
Speaker 1:And so recently, um she, she's like dad, I want to go to esthetician school and I'm like awesome, perfect thing that is awesome. She sells through it's time to do the practicum. She gets a 94% on it and I'm like this is fabulous, Except you have to take a standardized state test.
Speaker 4:Ah, and that's a challenge.
Speaker 1:To get a certificate.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:And I remember saying to Shanna I'm like I don't know how this is gonna work. And then I called our state board and I'm like, hey, how is this gonna work? Like, are there accommodations or anything like that? And they're like, no, you gotta pass it, it's, it's a standardized test. So she started studying and, um, you know, the first several times didn't do that well, and then I said, hey, you're going to have to study.
Speaker 1:There's a lot, it's medical terminology, it's the nomenclature, it's a big issue. She's like I know, but none of that was part of my school and it's hard. I'm like I know, anyway, I'm getting. It's a long story to get to the point where she had a tutor and she studied her butt off and through this process, the testing agency that administers the test, the gal and I'll never forget her, her name was Lourdes, she works in Salt Lake for the testing agency and we became friends, me and Allie and her, and every time she'd take the test I'd go. She would tell us how short she was and Marlene she. She would tell us how short she was and Marlene she got to one question that she missed.
Speaker 4:Oh, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:And I'm like this is so awesome, You're going to do it.
Speaker 1:And so then she took the next time and it was two, and then she took it and this I don't know how many times she's taken it now. She took it and I called Lourdes and I said with Allie and I said how did we do? And she said not good. And I looked across the table at my daughter and I'm like, okay, you're going to do this. And she's like Dad, I can't do it anymore. Anyway, long story short, last week she took it. And Anyway, long story short, last week she took it and I said how do you think it went? She said I feel pretty good about it, I feel pretty good about it. And she calls to get the result. And I just knew it, I knew it. And so I start videoing her across the table. This was a couple weeks ago and it's an automated response and I know they don't intend it to be this way, but it gets to, it's automated. You know it's a computer voice. Your test you took at noon on this day. Result is and up until then it had been fail right and on video it gets to. Result is pass and I'm I.
Speaker 1:I promise this story is going to have loop back to higher ed. But I, I I watched that moment for her and I thought, what, what a beautiful thing. Yes, to have a challenge, whatever that is, to try something super hard, that you think I don't even know if I can ever do this. And now the pride since then of I did it and now I'm ready to go on to this career that I'm passionate about and I want to do. Man, I'm proud of her. I'm just so happy for her. But I think of those stories that you must have across campus of kids and adults and older adults and people coming back to say, hey, how am I going to find my pathway? And it's going to be hard, but the accomplishment that comes with learning and education and career, and you're immersed in it every day.
Speaker 4:It's so profound. It's one of the greatest gifts, and your daughter now is going to be totally different the next time she faces a challenge.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Because she has had that experience of doing that with the support of her loving family, but being able to take on the hard thing and actually achieve it. And that's what the university wants to do for students. Because a lot of times I have students tell me oh, my family thinks I'm stupid for going to college. They think it's a waste of money. My goodness gracious, we've got the data. My friends, it is definitely not a waste of money. The money you invest, you earn so many times over over the course of your life. A million dollars more on average over the course of your lifetime If you get a college degree. It's incredible. But that there's so much fear that stops people and I don't ever want that to be the reason they stop. And I'll tell you, you know, I have a physical disability. I'm here today actually on a cane.
Speaker 4:When my son was born, I got permanent nerve damage in my left leg and the doctors told me well, you know, you may not walk without assistance again. And I pictured myself I'd been a marathon runner. You know I used to run 60 to 80 miles a week and so I pictured myself in a wheelchair. And there's nothing wrong with being in a wheelchair. Thank God we have a device like that. But I wanted to run again, I wanted to be, to have control over my mobility, and so I spent a good long time working very hard, and it was very frustrating. I remember being in a PT studio where they had a little wooden staircase that was just two steps so you could practice going up steps, and I could not get my left leg to lift up on that thing and my toe would just hit the base of that staircase over and over again, no matter how much my brain told it to lift up. And I was in labor for three days, which is kind of a long time, so they think it just well. We know it destroyed my femoral nerve in my left leg. So as a consequence, even though I'm able to move pretty fluidly most of the time, nobody would ever know if I sit too long or stand still for too long. That leg just gives away because it's putting too much pressure on that one muscle group in that one area where there's no nerve, and so I've taken a couple of bad falls lately as that leg is given out.
Speaker 4:But if I hadn't decided that I was going to walk again, that I was going to run again, I would still be walking every day with a cane or a walker or a wheelchair. I had to make a decision and I'm not saying there are some things you can't control. I had to make a decision and I'm not saying there are some things you can't control, but nobody can tell you what your limits are. You have to feel what those are and figure out what those are. And, um, I know it makes my son nervous every time I go out for a run cause he's afraid I'm going to take a spill when I'm hauling he's. He'd rather have me on the treadmill. Um, but I was just walking outside the Morrison center when I had my last fall, and so it doesn't have to be doing something dramatic. And I have learned that it not only took courage, it took this tenacity, this sisu to keep I used to call it Wyoming, cussedness right, to keep fighting for my mobility.
Speaker 1:I love, as we're talking, I love the Finnish we didn't really go into it but the Finnish heritage which is rich and deep and gives you all these great things. And then you put the Wyoming in that. It's this Wyoming Finnish grit.
Speaker 4:Yes, right, that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 1:It's like a perfect combo.
Speaker 4:It is, In fact, when people said to me when I first got here gosh, you've been under the gun so much. I can't believe you haven't left I was like, well, if that Wyoming wind doesn't blow you down, nothing will.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's great. What are some things you're looking forward to? This is going by really fast, but what's the future for Boise State? I know there's a lot. Talk a little bit about what you're most excited about.
Speaker 4:Do you know? We develop incredible new degree programs all the time and that's innovation of our faculty working with industry, working with nonprofits, thinking about what we need to build for the future. So we have all these new degrees rolling out and new schools rolling out and incredible things like our School of the Environment, which is this very interdisciplinary program, brings people together from all across the curriculum. Went out and worked with a local rancher a couple of years ago who was concerned about his number of water days as things heated up and they rewilded with the research of using NASA data, working with NASA, using scientific research, engineering research, biological research. They brought together a plan to rewild beavers on his property and when you pool water and it's deeper, it's less likely to evaporate in the heat.
Speaker 4:And so they were able to rewild beavers around his ranch and he got 21 additional water days in one year and so that kind of like complex problem solving. That's where higher ed is headed, and it's so exciting to me to think about bringing together. We have, like a school of public health, we have a school of computing, we have a school of the environment that thinks about like how do we help make the environment what people need it to be to thrive, to do the incredible work that they do, to be to thrive, to do the incredible work that they do, and these really complex, rich programs. That's very exciting to me. What's happening with Bronco Athletics is very exciting to me.
Speaker 4:We were the first group of five schools to compete in the college football playoffs this year, what a great year, what a great year, and here we are poised to go to the Mountain West Championships in men's basketball and women's basketball and waiting to see if those teams make it into the tournament and men's has been the last three years. It's really exciting. So there's so much to feel grateful for and excited about. And we're getting these new facilities a new science building. We've just opened a new arts building in the last few years and a new engineering and material science building. So we've got these incredible new facilities and there's just so much to be excited about.
Speaker 1:You know I saw, um, I love seeing the first campus photos and for whatever reason, uh on on social media within the last couple of weeks when I was scrolling, they said, guess it was, um, it was guess this campus and randomly it was Boise state, and so I I went into that and then it took me down this deep dive. But I just love those pictures of of when that first building was right there on the river and you see what things look like and then you look at how it's developed.
Speaker 1:What a beautiful place to be. I mean, there are some constraints because you are a downtown, you know urban campus, yes, but the ways to interact with the river, which is the river and then, where it sits, in its beauty, with the foothills and the downtown setting and the fact that you've crossed the river and you are now. You are the university.
Speaker 4:You're at the capital, you're in downtown business district it is.
Speaker 1:It is a beautiful someone, someone got lucky or was really really smart when they were thinking where are we? Going to put this thing, but I just love that part of it and the way the buildings fit and the state, and you know I'm a super Boise State fan. Um, so it's been fun and, uh, that last game against Utah state was so it's been fun and that last game against Utah State was just amazing, Incredible. I even brought a Vandal with me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, had the old Gov with me. That's right. We had a great great night. It was a great great game. It was nice to blow them up.
Speaker 4:Actually, I'm so proud of all of our universities and I think every Vandal in the state should feel so proud of Boise State and what it's been able to accomplish and cheer for those teams, and just like we cheer for them. We do yes, okay.
Speaker 1:I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding. No, there used to be one. I've been here a long, long time, but there used to be a very. It used to be a big rivalry. Bitter, acrimonious rivalry, Bitter horrible rivalry and that's kind of died out now, and I love rooting for the Vandals. They've had some great years too.
Speaker 4:And I'll tell you what when I came here and our presidents got together across the state, we said we are going to cooperate and lift each other up, because when we win, all of Idaho wins, and so we want to really work with and support each other up, because when we win, all of Idaho wins, and so we want to really work with and support each other and and we want to lift all of these institutions up. And I tell students all the time when I speak to high schools, I say I don't care where you go to college, just go Like, find the place that fits you and fits your desires and your future, and go there because that's where you're going to thrive. Um, but, I'll.
Speaker 4:I'll tell you what I'm always proud when I see when people say to me hey, you know, sorry, I'm a Vandal, I'm like, well, congratulations, that's amazing. Or I'm a Bengal. You know, it's great so we're all proud.
Speaker 1:Idaho State, Idaho State. I like their new president. He's great too. I'm actually going over as soon as we're done and giving a talk at ISU today.
Speaker 4:Fantastic.
Speaker 1:It's on. As you know, one of the things we're passionate about is the trades and getting kids into the trades. So I'm going over and talking to a big group of students over there about the trades. But Idaho State's done a great job too. It's done a great job too, and I think we're all part of an ecosystem and a state that we are better together the more we, you bet, and sure, there's probably some healthy competitiveness, which there should be. It's the way the world works. It makes us all better.
Speaker 4:That's what entrepreneurship and capitalism are all about.
Speaker 1:That's what it is, and if it weren't like that, we probably wouldn't love it. So it's okay to be a little competitive, but it's also okay to say we're all part of this Idaho family and we're all part of this culture and heritage that we want to. Now I like competing with the other states.
Speaker 4:That's what I like. Yeah me too.
Speaker 1:Let's keep our kids from going to Utah State.
Speaker 4:Amen Utah and keep Right, that's right.
Speaker 1:Well, president, this went by really fast. I just want to say how much I appreciate you. Your example, your leadership is just the way I watch you interact with businesses and help businesses and help our community, and the enthusiasm in which you lead and live it's infectious. It makes everyone around you better and I'm just proud to be your friend.
Speaker 4:Thank you. Can I say something about?
Speaker 1:you too.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I feel like one of my luckiest days when I came to Idaho was when I met you?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's nice.
Speaker 4:Because you have done so much for this state and your character. You competed so hard in that governor's race and one of the first things I did so when I was coming that primary just happened.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, the first things I did so when I was coming, that primary just happened and I went and read all the news coverage because I wanted to understand the state I was coming to. I really wanted to understand it and you have become such an incredible supporter of our state government and our governor. And when he gave you that award, this year for the contributions you made to the state and to the well-being of the state. The governor's award I just was so.
Speaker 1:It's actually kind of a cool thing. I don't talk about it very often but, um, you know, when I before I ran, I knew Brad a little bit and um actually talked to him before I I, I went into the race and, um, we became pretty good friends during that. You're, you're on the campaign trail all the time and you're interacting and it was sure it was competitive, but really really like him and got to know him really well. And then since then it's almost been odd for some of my friends and people.
Speaker 4:They're like is this real?
Speaker 1:And I'm like, yeah, it's real. I really enjoy him, appreciate what he does for our state and he and Teresa I mean it's a team effort, she's amazing and for what she does, and you know, I just really appreciate him.
Speaker 4:Well, and he recognized you for the same reason that I feel like you're really special. I think it takes a lot of character for somebody to care so much about people in the state that even after you know a difficult, challenging race like that, that you were able to really see that value and lift him up and and keep fighting for the wellbeing of the state.
Speaker 1:It just makes me so proud to call you my friend. I love and appreciate you. Thank you so much for what you do and we're here to help me in any way, Thank you.
Speaker 4:Thanks for having me Thanks everybody.