Ever Onward Podcast

Authentic Leadership in Action: Mayor Debbie Kling on Faith, Growth & Grit | Ever Onward - Ep. 70

• Ahlquist. • Season 1 • Episode 70

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Leadership isn't just about the public-facing work – it's also about the personal challenges we overcome each day. In this profound conversation with Mayor Debbie Kling of Nampa, Idaho, we discover the remarkable story of a leader who serves her community tirelessly while also caring for her bedridden husband at night and on weekends. "Those tough times make us better," she reflects, demonstrating how adversity shapes authentic leadership.

Mayor Kling, now in her eighth year at Nampa's helm, shares her perspective on managing explosive growth while preserving the community values that make Idaho special. "Nampa is the best of what America was – a place where neighbor still helps neighbor and we hold true to the foundations of faith in our country." This balance between progress and heritage defines her approach to governance as the city transforms through strategic development.

The conversation explores Nampa's impressive achievements, from downtown revitalization plans to a 28% reduction in Class A crimes. With remarkable transparency, Mayor Kling discusses the city's operational efficiency – managing with fewer resources than neighboring communities while implementing innovative solutions like manufacturing their own de-icer brine to save taxpayer dollars. Her business-minded approach to municipal leadership emphasizes return on investment, accountability, and stewardship.

Perhaps most compelling is the mayor's frustration with state-level politics that undermine local governance while claiming to champion autonomy from federal control. This hypocrisy creates real challenges for cities trying to manage growth responsibly. Despite these obstacles, Mayor Kling remains optimistic, building collaborative relationships across jurisdictions and sectors to create solutions that work for Nampa's unique needs.

Whether you're interested in local politics, leadership principles, or the future of growing Western cities, this conversation offers valuable insights from a leader who exemplifies public service with integrity, compassion, and vision. Listen and be inspired by what effective, authentic leadership looks like in action.

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Speaker 1:

Today on the Ever Onward podcast, we have Mayor Debbie Kling. Been friends and known Debbie for a long, long time. She is up for election this year. She's served as eight years as the mayor of Nampa and has done an unbelievable job through her leadership in that great city. It's going to be great to talk to her and catch up on all things Nampa. What's going on? We're obviously going to talk about growth in the Treasure Valley and what she's most excited about and upcoming in the city of Nampa. Prior to Mayor Debbie Kling, we're going to hear from Mark Cleverley and Keikoa Nawahine and they're going to be talking about flex space in the Treasure Valley.

Speaker 2:

Good morning here for an AllQuest update. I'm Mark Cleverley with AllQuest, here with Keikoa.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, Keikoa Nalahine on the leasing team.

Speaker 2:

So we want to do a quick update on just a couple different projects. One of them, victory Commons. We're really down to like our last two pads out there and we plan flex out there. We've got one flex building done, um built and all sold, a hundred percent sold, and so we we want to do another one and so we'll have you give an update on that and then um. Another project we're working on is rock Ridge, um over off of victory, um and sorry, not victory, but we're I'll. I'll let you explain where it's at Uh, but it's airport ground that we've um that we're leasing from them and we're going to do some more flex slash, really light industrial out there and so excited to get that one going as well. So give us an update on on victory commons.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, no, really excited with our flex products. So victory commons, our first flex building out there was kind of our first flex building among all of our asset types in our portfolio and having this mix of a warehouse portion, a front retail, showroom and office all in one space, especially out in that area on the corner of meridian, and victory, has allowed us to see a lot of variety of different users in that building. So you're saying that the whole building we sold when we about a 30,000 square foot building. When we did this, we condoed each individual unit so we had the flexibility to either sell or lease the units, depending on what groups wanted to come in and do. And traditionally when you see flex users, it's oh yeah, we want warehouse space and office and you know just kind of a mix of things, but it's your subcontractors or general contractors, people where they can store stuff in the warehouse, and really happy and excited with how our first flex building came out, because they come out really nice and they look really good.

Speaker 3:

We have a variety of these users. We've got Tattooed and Successful, which is an apparel company, in there. We've got Empire Gym, so a fitness gym in there, physical Therapy, a strictly office user, a real estate agent office, and then a couple of subcontractors in there, but just a wide variety.

Speaker 3:

So, like the name suggests very flexible to adapt to the people that are going in there, and so we're starting our second building here this year, right next to it, and that'll, like you said, essentially finish the project. The second building's a little bit different, essentially the same as our first one. That we did out there as far as looks and appearance on the outside, made it a little bit more user-friendly on the inside, just on the design and the way that we set that up and Brad, our architect, designed it. Interior is mostly column and beam structure, so it's just an open floor plate. One of the issues that we faced in building one was the demising walls were load-bearing and so not a lot of flexibility. If groups wanted to take more than one unit, it kind of had to work around the walls that were already in there and open it up, and so in building two, uh, pretty much open floor plate which, yeah, which makes it a lot more um, user-friendly and flexible and also build out costs are a little bit easier.

Speaker 3:

You know some of the things that we're fighting in there and similar sized building, but the bays are a little bit larger and so you got the ground floor plate where you can have your upfront retail showroom presence in the back where you can have a warehouse or however you want to utilize that space with the high ceilings, and then a mezzanine up top where most of the time, you have the offices and different things up there that that users have had. So we're with the high ceilings and then a mezzanine up top where most of the time, you have the offices and different things up there that that users have had. So we're excited to to kick off our second building out there and kind of finish that project.

Speaker 2:

So real quickly um, these flex buildings. So six years ago, when we kind of broke off and started uh, six years agoVA, we went to the Tri-Cities and we toured this product and we're like man, we got to do this here and so it's. We've been working on this for a long time and the great thing about the Flex and the great thing about our team is we've made so the adjustments we made from Flex 1 to Flex 2, like we're always learning, like what's best for the tenant or the buyer, right, and we'll, instead of us being set in our ways, we'll be like, hey, let's adjust this for these buyers or tenants because ultimately, it all depends on them, right? I mean, they're the ones coming in, they're the ones that want to see these changes, and so I think our team's done a great job with Flex 2 of making the necessary adjustments so that it's more user-friendly for these guys, 100%.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, taking the feedback and being able to adapt and adjust has been huge and something that we take a lot of pride in too, like you're saying, and so, yeah, taking those changes into Flex 2 is what we're really excited about. So you have a bay that you can be as small as 4 000 or you could take the whole building, you know 32 000 square feet, really flexible and, um, really easy to to figure out and work with different users, so a lot to offer there and in a great spot I mean there's.

Speaker 3:

There's so much growth out in that area and south meridian, meridian and victory and yeah, I live out in that area. It's crazy to see all the growth, how it's changed. Yeah so it's crazy. Yeah, exciting project there and then rock ridge um.

Speaker 3:

It is on victory, it is you know kind of between, uh, coal road and orchard right over there on the south side of victory, um.

Speaker 3:

And so they're gonna do, yeah, light, industrial, flex type feel a little bit different than the product that we're delivering at victory commons Commons in two ways One, we won't have a mezzanine in there, so it'll be open, high roofs.

Speaker 3:

We have the ability to do some dock doors, roll-up doors also, again, be flexible with the users that come in. And then, two, we can't condo out these units and sell them because, like you had mentioned, it's a ground lease that we have with the airport, yeah, and so that's that's really the main difference but still flexible of with users of 4,000 to 30,000 square feet where we can say, hey, this, we designed it in a way that, hey, this works for a wide range of users, this is what you, this is how we can build it out and go from there. And so I'm really excited to get that one rolling and get that. That's in the early stages of design and getting the marketing rolled out there. But it'll be great. It's underserved in that area when we talk about growth, and the path of growth out in that south Boise area and going out towards the airport is a lot of plans for growth and there's a lot going on out there, so we're excited to be able to deliver a product that can serve the needs of that area.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that product is a lot different than I mean not a lot, but it is different than Flex 2 or the Victory Commons stuff, mainly because, too, you look at like real estate's all about, you know what are you building in what location, and you look out there in the south boise and historically it's been more industrial right. I mean uh, heavy industrial, uh manufacturing, um things like that out there in that, in that area. So we, we looked at it. I mean we were going to do flex out there, kind of the same product that we've done at Victory. We just thought, you know what, it's not the right building for that area, it's not the right. Those users are not looking at that area, it's a different user. And so I think again, our team has adapted and looked at how we make our Flex different out there to the users that we're going to attract out there 100%.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's a great point is being able to understand that specific area and the needs of that market and being able to adapt and adjust and not just trying to do a one size fits all thing. And being able to analyze that from the beginning is really important.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, great point, because we were even thinking about doing office out there, like office isn't even the right use out there, right? So yeah, I mean it's but but you got to adapt, you got to change and you got to. You got to look at the feedback that you're getting and change to that. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

And we're excited for these projects. You know, when you talk to a lot of local groups, a lot of different brokers in the area, a big thing that's underserved is the ability to get smaller square footage and sizes in this flex or light industrial market and so being able to deliver a product like that where hey, there's. There's a lot of need for this and not a lot of product.

Speaker 3:

Let's go out and let's make sure it's in the right area the right building and make sure we're able to deliver to groups that have needs for something like this.

Speaker 2:

So we're excited, sweet, awesome man, thanks, all right, kill it.

Speaker 1:

Mayor, it's good to see you.

Speaker 4:

It's good to see you too.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for coming on.

Speaker 4:

It's great.

Speaker 1:

Great things happening in Nampa. As always, you know, there's great things happening in Nampa and the treasure Valley.

Speaker 4:

There are it's great, great things happening in Nampa. As always, you know, there's great things happening in Nampa and the Treasure Valley there are. It's pretty amazing, isn't it?

Speaker 1:

It's amazing, but I have not caught up to you in a little bit. It's been several months. How are you doing Good?

Speaker 4:

Good.

Speaker 1:

How's life?

Speaker 4:

Life is good. Life isn't always easy, no, but it is good. It is good, that's what.

Speaker 1:

I love about you, though, but you're fearless. Has it been eight years, seven years? How long have you been?

Speaker 4:

married, so I'm in my eighth year. Yes, it's an election year and I don't like that. But here we go.

Speaker 1:

Eighth year election year. That seems like it's gone by so fast for me it has yeah. Because I remember when you came in and long-time service before that. How's your husband?

Speaker 4:

It's a long journey with my husband yeah, he's bed-bound but I get to have him at home. So I have a wonderful caregiver and he has a rare disease and it's a long journey, but you know, those tough times make us better. So I'm a caregiver in the evenings and weekends.

Speaker 1:

Listen, I have people on a lot that I love, like you. It's inspiring when people will talk a little bit about their life because I think people see the mayor. They see a very strong leader. I've known you for a long, long, long time and you're one of the strongest leaders I've known in Idaho and I remember the first time I heard about your, your husband and the care you give and I'm like man, that's inspiring. I didn't ever. I mean, it's just you just plug along and but talk a little bit about doing both and how, how you've handled it and what people can learn from that.

Speaker 4:

You know, I get to get up every day and go to work and I love that, but I get to, I don't have to. And my husband would love to get to get up and go to work every day. He doesn't get to and he didn't choose the journey. He's on as many that are with medical issues and I have to say, for my husband and I over the years, especially these recent years, my heart would go out to people that had a recent loss. That's tragic, that's unexpected, because it's difficult. Our journey is a long journey and it's a long journey of failing health and going downhill.

Speaker 4:

He has a rare disease that there's so little information on it. It's called posterior cortical atrophy and they don't know what causes it. There's no cure for it and it's long. It's a long journey, but one of the things in life when we go through difficult places it makes us better, it gives us a different level of empathy and so I've just learned, you know, you stay steady, you stay steady, and the key is in going through difficult times. It's walking through it with joy, just walking through it with joy. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's beautiful and so much of um sounds. Some of these things sound cliche or just corny, but whatever, I think living life with gratitude and somehow finding a way to have gratitude drive you and look for the things that are positive and giving thanks for those things. And it's just a you know cause. Cause, we all have issues, we all have things, and I think it's hard to talk about sometimes because we don't want to, we don't want to be vulnerable, we want to talk about the things that are hard in our life, Right, but? But you get around people like you, that that do live life with gratitude and look at things with hey, what I'm going to find the joy in this? And it's, it's inspiring, but it's the way we all can live and should live to be happier, Right, I mean there's a lot to learn from that.

Speaker 4:

Well, authenticity. I think sometimes, when people look at leaders and put them on a pedestal and put them in this place, that's maybe different. And the reality is we're not different. We face the same challenges in life that everyone does, and that's life. The question is, how do we face it and how do we do it? And you know what? We're running a long race and we want to end it. Well, that's great.

Speaker 1:

It's fantastic. Well, I'm sure he loves and appreciates you. There's probably not a word to describe someone that cares for you when you are bedridden and in a situation like this. So well, thanks for sharing that. Let's talk about your tenure as mayor.

Speaker 4:

Think about what's happened in Nampa in eight years. Well, I tell you what. It's funny because when I was elected, growth was the topic and I'll never forget going, and in fact it was mentioned in a meeting yesterday. That was a BVAP meeting, or it was a different meeting, I can't remember. But actually, what happens when we're not growing? So when I came in as mayor, I said the challenge is growth. Well, here we are, eight years later and the challenge is growth and even more growth. But what is the opposite of that?

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

We wouldn't want to be there, no, if there were no growth and we were static. So it is a challenge, but that's. And then we went through the pandemic. That was just a ton of fun and we learned a lot through that. But you know what? The city of Napa we came through it well, we came through it well and so it was. You know what?

Speaker 1:

it's just been a journey like life. Is that journey that we were talking about? It's interesting If you go back, there's so much anti-growth sentiment right now yes, there just is. And so I like to remind people that one I do spend time with our business out in other communities because we're in the Pacific Northwest doing development, and when you talk to them they're like, oh, please, give us this problem that you have right, exactly Because they're not having the same problems. The other thing is we are physically in Idaho and in our cities we're in really good shape. We just are, and a lot of places aren't.

Speaker 1:

So you start thinking again this gratitude thing, thinking, okay, of all the problems we have, this is a pretty good problem to have as long as it's done correctly. And then you think about jobs. Now, the one thing that I can't wait to talk to you about is if you think about, all we talked about on the boards we were on 20 years ago was how do we keep our kids here? Median wage, where do our kids go? I mean, it was the topic of all discussions. We're losing our kids to other communities because they can't find jobs here that pay a livable wage. That's not the discussion anymore. Correct.

Speaker 1:

Now the discussion is okay, my livable wage is there, but the cost of housing has outpaced that and it's hard for them to live here or find places they'll live. But their their jobs. That's come and and that's. We ought to be very grateful for that. But how do you look on like remembering those days and now saying, okay, now we do have jobs, we have all this industry. You've boomed in Nampa. You look at the big employers. Another one was just announced with Tractor Supply coming and I think I read 500 jobs.

Speaker 4:

With Tractor Supply but Excite also is located there, so we've got a lot of business growth in. Nampa, which is awesome, yes, but you have to have rooftops right In order to to meet the needs. The housing needs to go with the jobs. Yeah, how?

Speaker 1:

so jobs are good. What? What are you doing housing wise? What are, what are the, what are the things, what are the ideas you have to help help that problem.

Speaker 4:

It's challenging, it's a little tricky. A little tricky because, when you alluded to it earlier, people don't want growth, they don't want density. They want to say stop. We moved in from out of state and now we don't want anybody else to come. Yeah, right, so we're going to say stop to everything. We recently did a housing survey and it showed that by 2040, we need 14,000 units. Yeah, so, and there's a lot of discussion about well, we want acre lots. Right, we want acre lots. The problem with that is it eats up our ag ground.

Speaker 4:

Smart growth is actually getting density, and so what we're trying to do is look at master plan communities On the residential side. I think the master plan communities are really important because you have a mix when it's built. You've got the larger lots down to the high density, you've got, maybe, a commercial node, you've got your recreational area there. If you can build in that concept, I think it's the best way to move forward. It was a few years ago that we needed more multifamily because we had such a low. You know, we just needed more of them. And then today we really have built up pretty good and you've got some saying no, we don't want a lot more multifamily.

Speaker 4:

So it's, you know what it's evolving, it's evolving all the time because even from year to year you can't say I came in and I said I was going to do this. It's changed.

Speaker 1:

The beautiful thing? This would be my argument. I'm happy to have your counter argument. But the beautiful thing is if you think of how explosive it's been, you don't have to. You look around you and you're like, well, we don't have to theorize about a lot of stuff, like we don't have to like say what ifs? Because we can look down the road and say, hey, here's what's happened for the last eight to 10 years. So it makes it more predictable to understand what's happening, because it's not slowing down with what's happening in a micron and we're discovered. So it's like, hey, what's going to happen is what's happened.

Speaker 1:

And I think we need more of everything. Because if you think about it, if you look at the apartment data now that you could argue that there was too many, but then with the, with kind of the interest rates going up and everything just kind of stopping. If you look at the trend right now, all you know, for a while there was probably a little bit more vacancy than they thought there would be, but now there's been no new starts for the last two years. So all of a sudden, by the time it takes, you get an approval, you get in the ground, you get them built. There's going to be a time in the next 18 months that everyone's going to say, oh my gosh, we're going to need more of those.

Speaker 1:

Think of townhomes, think of starter homes, think of these master plan communities that kind of have a little bit of everything.

Speaker 1:

And then, what I love, if you look at what happens like look in South Meridian even, where the cities have wisely said, hey, save these corners for this commercial retail, it's not the first thing you need and oftentimes, as a developer, you're like, oh my gosh, if you look at this commercial, what are we going to need? But, boy, you're sure glad you kept it. Now you look at Amity and Eagle Road. My daughter lives right there and I'm like what if they wouldn't have preserved this corner where now there's just an Albertsons that went in? And now you're talking about trips on roads and keeping things closer to where you live so that you're using existing infrastructure. So there are ways to do this smart, right, and but my argument would be we kind of need to be smart and do all of it, because we're so far behind and it's only going to get worse to be smart and do all of it because we're so far behind and it's only going to get worse.

Speaker 4:

I totally agree. It's actually the mix, and so it's constantly reevaluating where we are, what we have, but it's looking at the plats what's come in versus what's there because it's shifting. Sometimes you don't see what's coming, but it's already platted. In fact, we find that, with some of the approvals that we're going through and some of the growth, some of it was platted and annexed and brought in back in 2004 and 2014. And it's just now getting built and then even now with interest rates, and I just kind of I know that interest rates are back. You know what they are, but my first home and back in the day, it was 13% interest. Yeah, I got a really great deal at 10, I mean.

Speaker 1:

so it's yeah, it's all relative it's all relative and it ebbs and flows, and it is what it is and yesterday at the we were both at the b-vac thing. I thought I thought it was interesting, uh, the panel of, uh, big construction companies, because if you think back, there's always a challenge. They're just different challenges, correct, correct, and how are we approaching them? And that's why I and I think I said this like I love our chances, because I, you look at the leaders we have right now, I mean I'm not just saying, I mean, like you, look across the valley, we have very thoughtful mayors, we have that are working together.

Speaker 4:

You said that yesterday and I love that and thank you for that, because we are working together, we're talking Better than ever.

Speaker 1:

Yes, Better than ever. I mean there is a connection of how do we do this together, how do we solve problems together? Then you go, even to the councils. They come and go a little bit but like, look at that, look at our, you know, and the next layer down for us is then the other ACHD. There, luckily you don't have ACHD right. I mean it is as a developer. It's interesting because as soon as we go across that Ada County line and we get into Canyon County, it just makes more sense because you have more control over what you're doing with dollars.

Speaker 4:

It's a little easier when you are working with a smaller agency.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, smaller agency, more needs, focused on what it is, more more probably in tune with what it is. But that's neither here nor there. I don't think think that's changing. But but even the new director of achd, uh ryan head, is like attending meetings and being cooperative and being helpful and it's really nice to have that. So and then you go to our legislature. I mean, I think in the state we live in, I think back to 15, 20 years ago in Nampa and even increasing the size of I-84 to get back and forth and some of those things, I think your local legislators, I think of Youngblood, they really stepped up and led to try to make things better.

Speaker 4:

So it requires this yes, they did.

Speaker 1:

It requires kind of everything right to be working together and everyone kind of oaring in the right direction, and it feels like right now we're doing that from my perspective.

Speaker 4:

We are, although, I have to say, legislatively we kind of have an attitude that we don't like local government, which is interesting, I find it very interesting.

Speaker 1:

It's so hypocritical, right, because it's like federal government, leave us alone. We're Idaho, we're autonomous, we're a thing. And then you get to the legislature and you've got these cities, who are in touch with the people more than anyone, right, and all of a sudden that principle goes out the door. It has. We're going to tell you what you're going to do.

Speaker 4:

It's difficult and we just did a $400 million tax cut and that's great. However, we just had a meeting earlier this morning on we're talking streets and traffic and that side of our public works division, which we do in-house, and so we are going to lose $250,000 a year because when they did that $400 million tax cut, you've got to take that money from somewhere. So one of the places they took it from impacted the revenue that we have for streets. That's one of the greatest challenges and our citizens are saying public safety and transportation those two things and our streets and so you use impact fees for new growth, but that doesn't cover renewal and replacement of that pavement.

Speaker 4:

And it's aging. We've got aging infrastructure Trying to figure out how to fund. And then the effects of, I'll just say candidly, house Bill 389 that we talked about a few years ago. We have almost $3 million not in our budget today and that was growth, funding growth. So it's not there.

Speaker 1:

So there are some decisions they make, like that one.

Speaker 4:

You've got to consult your local government.

Speaker 1:

But it just didn't make sense when they did it. And when they did it, I remember everyone saying well, this, wait a minute. You preach growth, funding growth. You preach local control. You preach, hey, let us take care of our dollars. And then they pass something like that, knowing darn well what the consequences would be. And now we're living those consequences. But I don't understand that.

Speaker 4:

Well, to be candid, we had a resolution put together by the Association of Idaho Cities that we put before the legislature and it stayed in a drawer. It didn't come out and all that resolution said was it was acknowledging the role of local government and respecting local government, and it didn't come out and it wasn't adopted, which says something, and I think that I'm going to get in so much trouble for having this conversation, but it's a reality. It's what we face at the local level and for me, I have to say I don't like politics, I don't like political posturing, and I'm not here because I like politics. I'm only here because I want to serve our community, I want to make wise decisions and in business or in anything, you want to leave it better when you leave than when you came in, and that's really the goal.

Speaker 4:

Efficiency, I will say at the local level, like we started each year, we kind of have a theme, and this year's theme, back in October, before the election, was efficiency. Before Doge was a thing, right, so that's how we function. Well, you've had to be efficient. You're the CEO of a city, right, so it's different, you're the CEO.

Speaker 1:

You've got a budget you have to live with. You have to balance that budget. You have to decide how are we going to most efficiently spread the taxpayer dollars and funds to cover needed services? Right, that's your world you live in. And then you've got political things happening to make statements that they're not the CEO of a city, they're not the CEO of a state. They're making political statements and in the world we live in, there's a lot of political things that are done that, frankly, I think if they had the data one of the arguments I've always made and I hope that I'm right, one of the things we don't do well is if we had data sometimes better data to show the impact of decisions or of political statements being made, maybe we would win, maybe we wouldn't, but I don't know.

Speaker 4:

And I feel like we have pretty good data.

Speaker 4:

But you have to be willing to listen to the data and give time in the process to review the data, because what happens? A lot with our statutes that come forward. They come forward pretty quickly, especially we have one right now urban renewal at the end of the session. It hits at the end of the session, there isn't time to review it, just like 389. And then it gets voted on but the language isn't right, and so if we are not ensuring that the language of the bill protects the local jurisdiction, that we're actually imposing that on right.

Speaker 4:

There's language makes the difference. It can put us in conflict with other agencies and it can also put us in a legal battle, and there were several bills this year that the language was not good. Yet it goes through and it's like we need to pause and give time to really one discuss it before we implement it, which is, you know, years ago we did a reallocation on state shared sales tax revenue. Jason Monks actually ran that, but he took it for like three years. They looked at it, then they came back and they looked at it again and they looked at it again. And that was so good because they paused to make sure that when they did implement it. They implemented something that would stand and that was good. I think that's a wonderful model and example of something that was done very well, and I think we need to do that in a lot of other areas where we don't push things through, knowing that and you know, sometimes we're settling for not the best because we don't want the worst, and is that an unfortunate standard that we fall into?

Speaker 1:

I think that there's so much wisdom in that You're running again. I am. It's an election year. One of the things that I have enjoyed watching as I get older here is the continuity of care in health care. That's what it would be called the continuity, because a lot of the things that happen in a community take trust, they take time, they take a leader that authentically loves the people, understands the heritage, understands the direction it's going. You look at Mayor Tammy long period of time, amazing leadership, right. You look at Mayor Nancolis right Amazing leadership over a period of time.

Speaker 1:

And now I'm not saying we're getting older, debbie, but like you're in eighth year here, right, you're starting to hit that phase where you now you understand the community, you understand the direction, you understand the challenges, you understand the hurdles, and so you've got to be looking forward to that next four years with excitement, because you kind of get it now.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, you know it does. It takes time to really understand it and I appreciate that comment. I was just thinking earlier this morning about our visit and thinking about you as a on your physician side, right as a doctor in life, sometimes we think someone's healthy because we'd see the outside, right. They look healthy, but sometimes there's something going on in the inside that you can't see, and I think about that analogy as it relates to city government. Is it healthy on the inside? Because the only way we can be healthy long term and be here even though we look great on the outside is if you have a healthy inside. And so my focus. You know, as a mayor, you're really an influencer and you set guidance and direction, but as a CEO, you have a responsibility to ensure that the operational efficiencies are there, that the stewardship is there, and so our core values we talk about it a lot. It's excellence, it's stewardship, it's teamwork, truth and integrity. Integrity is police, is excellent City, we're all integrity, but integrity is truth at 100%, it's not 99%. So we talk about that with our leaders all the time. The efficiency is that we have a responsibility, but we talk about return on investment.

Speaker 4:

Right now we're working on, we do workshops before the budget season and every department comes and it's all on video so that everybody can see it and we encourage our population to look at it to say what has this department done? What are our goals? Did we accomplish our goals? Is there any variance expected coming up in the budget, and why? But for new positions, there has to be a return on investment, so how is it going to be funded?

Speaker 4:

So really, I like to look at city government more like a business. It isn't exactly because it is municipal, but I am not a fan of government entitlement, right, and there's so much entitlement in the world we live in, especially at the federal level. I have to say what's happening and getting our debt under control is important. But, as I shared with our city council this morning, I will say that when we come before city council with a budget, we've already looked at the stewardship. We've looked at. Last year we cut our operational budget by 5%. This year we're staying at zero increase and any new position has to have a return on that.

Speaker 1:

Which is incredible considering growth, and it's providing more with less.

Speaker 4:

Well, for example, roads. So this morning we just looked at an analysis at how many employees per mile. For example, I think ACHD was 32 employees per mile. Highway 1 was 19. I think Highway 4, I can't remember was 21.

Speaker 4:

We're 52 miles per employee that our employees have to do and our wages aren't the same sometimes as our neighboring city. So why do the people stay Right? And the thing I applaud our employees because of the intrinsic value of being part of a team, loving what they do and their desire to make a difference. I am so proud of our departments and the work that gets done. So we are the largest public works in the state because we do everything. We do the streets, we do all the water, we have an airport, I mean so we're the largest public works division. There's a lot of work that gets done, but and we have skilled, incredible people One thing about being a leader and you know this, I'm not the smartest person in the room, right, my job is to surround myself with people smarter than me that are the experts, Cause I don't get to be drilled down and be the expert.

Speaker 1:

The good leaders do that.

Speaker 4:

And that's what I have to do, right? You just surround yourself by amazing people that do a good job, they're accountable, they have goals.

Speaker 4:

We know that we're setting direction, and then you go there and get it done and, as a city we talk about innovation all the time, like our guys actually were the ones, the first ones in the Treasure Valley, and I think ACHD may be wanting to implement this, and that is where we made our own brine. We saved $64,000 this last year just on the brine alone, because they can do it for cents on the dollar versus over a dollar a gallon for the liquid.

Speaker 1:

The liquid de-icer.

Speaker 4:

De-icer, I forget the name of it, but anyway, that's just one example, but that's how we live within the city of Napa.

Speaker 1:

I want my guys to start doing that on our buildings, because it's expensive. We got lucky this winter, though.

Speaker 4:

We did.

Speaker 1:

I was talking to my brother-in-law who runs our property management stuff. He was in my house last night. He's like we got so lucky this year and financially it so lucky this year and financially it makes a huge impact.

Speaker 4:

Huge impact, that's what he was saying. Well, how about. I show you how to do it right. Just it's easy. You can make your own brine and you're done we're gonna do it.

Speaker 1:

Hey, talk about, uh, what's happening downtown. I have so it's been a long time but I was able to do the library in downtown nampa and it's been. Tom dell was a mayor. Yes, you know there's a lot of arguments of how how that thing came together and the police station, and it's been. Tom Dell was a mayor. You know there's a lot of arguments of how that thing came together and the police station, but it's still going there and I think of the cost that it was then and what it would be now, and it's right in the center of downtown.

Speaker 4:

And it's beautiful. It is absolutely beautiful yeah.

Speaker 1:

And what else is going on downtown. I was there. Well, you have the Nampa Civic Center, which, in my lifetime, because I had a daughter that danced- oh you were there, and now I have a niece who dances and so we go out there all the time, that's great. All the time, but there is a lot going on in downtown Napa.

Speaker 4:

You know, one of the challenges with our downtown in recent history was we didn't have a change in some of the land building ownership. We finally had that change and so it's given us a wonderful opportunity. So we've got some great new businesses coming in restaurants, revitalization of a couple of buildings we still have one building that's a holdout and when that can change and and we can actually get because we've got people wanting to buy it, you have to have a willing seller.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

And so that's something that needs to happen, but we're finishing an implementation plan right now, and I'm very excited about it. Over the years, we have had a number of different plans, and then they never got done.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

And you know the citizens look at it and say, good grief, let's not do another plan. This particular one's taking some of the great work that had previously been done, revalidating it, and we're going to get it. Just in a couple months I think it'll be totally done with some incredible concepts that will change the look of our downtown. It's lots that are going to be changed and moved and we're going up right with multifamily downtown with commercial down below. You should come in and invest.

Speaker 1:

I will take a look at it. You should take a look at it. We love downtown.

Speaker 4:

I tell you what it is going to be so cool. I am excited about it because it's going to be a whole new downtown and we need downtown living. As you know, housetops support commercial. You have to have it, and so for the commercial to be there. But we also have some great restaurants already downtown. But we need to finish it out.

Speaker 1:

Well, you know, I, we're doing a lot in downtown Reno right now. So I'm, we're in Reno a lot and and there they sent a contingency out with to visit us in Boise. Cause they're like how did? How did Boise do this? And and you don't remember. But when I did eighth and main and and that was the question everyone asked me is like, why are you doing an office building? You should be doing residential, why are you doing office building? And you're like well, you gotta create, you gotta create lives and people in a place where they're working, so that then you can have people that want to live there. And I mean, there's an order to this Exactly. And they'll always say, in Reno right now, they're like well, how did you do it? And I said well, there's a formula that's pretty straightforward Put civic uses downtown.

Speaker 1:

Because, right, and you watch jurisdictions all around our state and the Northwest that do it wrong where they're going to invest money to put their stuff. So putting the library downtown versus putting the library, that's a very good move. Putting your police station downtown, so there's people working downtown, that's the key. Then having reasons to work downtown, and then all of a sudden people will live downtown, and especially in a downtown district that's as beautiful as downtown Nampa, with as much history, and so I'm that's gonna work right.

Speaker 1:

It's also at the crossroads for your city too, because Nampa is interesting, right, because you've got South Nampa and you know where all the old Salzer was and and St Al's now, and you got everything down there and then you get, you come through the downtown to get to I-84 and I think think I've always said the beauty of Nampa and the beauty of the development in the next phase is you do go through it. So if you can create a reason to stay there and live there, it's going to work right. So I'm incredibly bullish on that.

Speaker 4:

And we have some historical buildings that are absolutely beautiful.

Speaker 4:

And so, as we look at the design, and you know how to do this and do it well, it's the blend of the modern, and here we go, moving forward to the history that's already there and bringing it all together and we have a beautiful downtown, and so I'm excited about getting this done. We have our Nampa Development Corp, which is our urban renewal. That can be part of it before it sunsets urban renewal that can be part of it before it sunsets. We've got about another six years before that sunsets to where we can maybe have incentive dollars and help move this forward. That's what's important, and we need parking, and parking doesn't pay for itself, but it's all integrated. So as soon as we get this plan, we need you to look at it.

Speaker 1:

Well and listen, urban renewal gets there are, I mean there are cases you go around the state and, because it's the only tool, it gets misused, like I mean.

Speaker 4:

That's what we got in trouble for, and there's now a statute in place so that you can't do what we did.

Speaker 1:

And so it does. But when used appropriately and having it reimbursed like it's tax dollars you're paying Like. People always ask what is this thing I'm like? Well, imagine going and investing. Well, the one I'll use for an example is you can go invest a hundred million dollars in a downtown project and any public infrastructure you put in public infrastructure that you're prepaying and putting in that qualifies under a formula as public infrastructure. Over five to seven years, depending on the length of the term of the district, you will be able to be reimbursed for public infrastructure. You put it. When you describe it that way, people are like oh, so you?

Speaker 4:

brought in a I get it now, yeah.

Speaker 1:

You put in $100 million, you brought the tax base up to here and you're going to get reimbursed for public infrastructure. I'm okay with that and I'm like, yeah, that's what it is. It's, it's interesting, Right. But if you don't hear it that way, it's like, wow, this is that government picking winners and losers and all this other stuff. I'm like you don't understand. You don't understand. You've never, you've never spent five minutes investigating what it's for. So I'm glad to hear that it has been, because it's the only thing that is there.

Speaker 4:

But there's a bill this morning that's in committee on urban renewal again. That again has language that leaves it open. We support the fire and the exclusion and everything that they're doing in that bill.

Speaker 4:

But the other side of it is, if there's debt, they talk about the city council having the ability to go in and just sunset it and say you're done. Well, what if there's debt and the language in the bill doesn't even address that? You've got to have good language. So we're asking that they pause or amend. Send it to the amending order, get the language right. We'll see what happens today.

Speaker 1:

Every year it's there, every year it's in you. Yeah, what you know, as I get older, I just shake my head sometimes. But if we had a better toolbox that had different tools that could then underwrite projects depending on what they are, if there was one for blight, it's very different than if it's tax increment for incentivizing growth. They're just different. Or if it's a utility for crying out loud, I mean, there's just different ways. You could bond for different things to cover things. And because we don't have that, then we have this one tool that will be stretched or used differently, and then that's when they get hammered, anyway, at some point, well, we're limiting that tool right now oh yeah, Legislatively we're limiting the one tool we have.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 4:

And then we look at other cities and people compare us to other cities around us, and I think it was Orem, Utah, a number of years ago at the remember when, and you were probably there, but you've developed in so many other cities, so you've got better examples than I but of other cities that have different tools and see the incredible work that gets done.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Utah, I am getting really old. So Skip Oppenheimer and Bill Whitaker and I, probably in 2008 or 2009, put together a group called Idaho 2020. And we specifically studied and looked at what are the tools that people use to invest in infrastructure and how are they kind of covering growth in their community. And Utah was a really, really good example. We actually did a formal study and said how do they do it? Just what can we learn from other jurisdictions? And it's a red state conservative, but the principle of having growth paid for by the people that are going to use it is a very conservative principle if explained, right and understood. But you gotta, you gotta, you gotta be willing to understand and and study and that it's not an additional tax.

Speaker 4:

So, many people think, when they see urban renewal on their tax bill, that they're paying more. They're not paying more. It's just that those tax the increment tax is going to a different destination, but it isn't an additional tax. And it's hard to get the. To educate the public so that they really understand is it's hard. It's hard to reach them. Yeah, so it's yeah, it's a little difficult.

Speaker 1:

Okay, talk to me about your community connections.

Speaker 4:

I know that's a big part of what you're doing.

Speaker 1:

That's another thing I want to talk about.

Speaker 4:

You know, it's just transparency. When I came into office initially, I did like Mondays with the Mayor and I did different opportunities just to hear from the community. This is just an opportunity by district, to actually get to hear from our citizens and I've asked them, I did a short video and it's like please come with your ideas and solutions, right, because we can all talk about what we see wrong, and usually it's growth, usually it's traffic and transportation. But this is an opportunity for us to listen and we're doing it by district, so the council members that represent that district will be there, and myself, and just to listen to our citizens.

Speaker 1:

So it's awesome, and so those are. On April 8th 16th yeah and 28th yes that that's great. Um, let, let. Can we talk a little bit about growth in Nampa, because I, I think, um, uh, you know, you go back 25 years when I kind of started here. You had, you had Boise. Um, I mean you could.

Speaker 4:

There were distinctly different communities.

Speaker 1:

They were you could even go as far as, like you, you had the big, the big four, right, you had Boise and Meridian and Nampa and Colville, but then you had, you know, mayor Evans and Garden City, you had this little teeny thing called CUNA, you had Star, you had Middleton and Eagle, and they were very distinctly different, things right, and they each had their own challenges and problems or whatever. But we're pretty much grown together now.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I mean if you, I mean in all directions, um, meridian to CUNA is is connected now, and you look at, nampa to Caldwell and Nampa to Meridian and it's just going to continue. So this notion that, hey, we're going to stop growth, it just. I think people that have come here from everywhere else, that have come here for short periods of time and said, okay, I'm here, now stop, or somehow I'm the, I'm the authority on, I don't want us to become California. I just laugh when I listen to them, because one the reason California is in the problem they are in, a lot of blue States are, is that government gets involved and says, okay, we're going to regulate the crap out of everything, we're going to now try to control what happens in our community, and every time that happens, costs go through the roof.

Speaker 1:

Regulation drives policy. That is bad and that's what they're asking for. So, first of all, just on the surface, I'm like, well, that doesn't even make sense. And then, secondly, we have a a heritage here and we have a beauty here and we have our people here that they're once discovered. You know, you, you're not gonna be able to cap that deal. I mean it's not gonna.

Speaker 4:

I mean people want to be here because it's wonderful well, and they're fleeing something they're fleeing something right, and so the key is that we don't become the very thing that they're fleeing.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and it can happen even in almost a reverse order, and so we really need to be careful about that. The distinctness of our communities. I like to say that Nampa is the best of what America was, because we're a place where neighbor still helps neighbor and we hold true to the foundations of faith in our country. If you look at our country and the foundations of our country where it came from and where we are today at the federal level, it's not the same and we want to go back and be that as a community. It's not easy to hang on to it, but my intent, as long as I get to be mayor, is that we hang on to some of those very core foundational principles, which is the strength of family and faith in our community, that we do operate in integrity and we don't operate with political motivations. But the growth thing is kind of outside of that and so how we approach growth it is tricky. I mean, the world we live in is very tricky.

Speaker 1:

Well, when you just so listen to, when you just like I'm listening to your comments, I'm thinking that is what people want.

Speaker 4:

Everything you just said is what people so?

Speaker 1:

they keep coming here and then when they get here, they're like I love these people, I love my neighborhood, I love feeling like I'm, I love the safety. I mean you think of the safety and the beauty and the neighborhood goodness and the heritage of Idaho and then you're like, okay, we're going to stop this, you're not going to stop it. So then the next thing is okay, how do we figure out how to keep Idaho Idaho and kind of provide a place where our kids can stay here and thrive? That should be the conversation, not how, and I my fear is. My fear is you look at some of these knuckleheads that want to try to regulate stuff and that would be a disaster.

Speaker 4:

It has been a disaster. We're supposedly reducing regulations in the state of Idaho, but actually we're increasing the regulations from state to local rather than reducing, and so it's a quandary that we're in today, but yeah.

Speaker 1:

If you pick legislator A, b, c, pick any of them. Okay. And you said, go be a mayor for a day in Nampa. What would your perspective be if you were the CEO of the city versus the person that doesn't have to deal with some of the regulation you're passing down and in the same breath you're passing resolutions or laws saying federal government, screw you, we're. I don't know. It doesn't connect.

Speaker 4:

No it doesn't connect. That's exactly right, it doesn't.

Speaker 1:

Well, let's, let's end on something super positive. What's, what are your? What are you looking forward to the most in the in the coming year for for your city? Are you looking forward to the most in the coming year for your city?

Speaker 4:

I am looking forward to getting the downtown implementation plan done and setting the vision for where we can go. I have to say and I told my team this this morning I am so proud of our employees in the city of Napa. We talked about that earlier. One thing we didn't talk about is policing. We implemented a ComSTAT program I think it was before 2020, but just looking at the stats from 2020, well, 2018 to today, we've reduced our class A crimes, which is property crimes, violent crimes against persons, against property and violent crime, so that has gone down by 28%. Back in the day, nampa was, we did have war crime across the Treasure Valley, and it's one of the things that we fight with the reputation. We're not there today. We are doing such an amazing job. We have a new integrated command center. You should come tour it. It is awesome. I will.

Speaker 4:

It looks nicer than even what LA has. It is an incredible room with our real-time crime center. The videos, the work that's getting done, it is so good and, again, integrity is at the core of everything we do. We have a lot of good training for our police officers. So when I look to the city of Nampa and our future, we're going in the right direction.

Speaker 4:

It's not easy, but we have good people, and what makes community amazing and what makes a city great, it's the people, it's just the people. And we have people that lean in. And as long as we lean in in a positive sense, we come together to say how do we solve the challenges that we have ahead of us? Right, if we do that and that is municipal government working with the private sector, working with the nonprofit sector. Right, we all have to collaborate and work together, and so I'm a champion of that working together, collaboratively to where we figure it out together. We need to look forward with hope right to our future, because we have a great future ahead. And if we could get bogged down in the negativeness of what's happening in the world around us? But our city and for the city of Nampa, I want to be a city set on a hill whose light shines, and that is a focus for us, and you know what we're going to go there. We have great people, but what makes a community great is the people.

Speaker 1:

You dropped the mic on that. I mean amen. That was beautiful. Thank you for your leadership, thank you for your friendship. It's been I've known you a long time and I just love. I love watching you lead. You're a great example to so many.

Speaker 4:

Well, you are too.

Speaker 1:

And I look forward to you winning this next election and continuing your great work and it was great to have you on and just get an update on all things, nampa. But thank you, mary.

Speaker 4:

Thank you and I hope I can turn it around on you, because you have been a leader leading in this entire Treasure Valley and in our state and you know what. It's people like you doing this and trying to make a difference, inspiring leaders that makes a difference in our state. So thank you for that.

Speaker 1:

Well, the coolest part I'm busy. So people always say, why are you still doing the podcast? And I'm like this is why? Because I think having a way, one, I love talking and catching up with people that I love and respect. And secondly, it gives a way for people to hear more about the great things going on, and we do have so much positive, so much positive, and we come together on things and that's what makes Idaho great. But you're, you're, you're, you're a pillar of that and we love and appreciate you. So thank you very much.

Speaker 4:

Thank you.

Speaker 3:

Thanks, everybody Take care.