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Ever Onward Podcast
The Ever Onward Podcast is your go-to business podcast, offering engaging discussions and diverse guests covering everything from business strategies to community issues. Join us at the executive table as we bring together industry leaders, experts, and visionaries for insightful conversations that go beyond the boardroom. Whether you're an entrepreneur or simply curious about business, our podcast provides a well-rounded experience, exploring a variety of topics that shape the business landscape and impact communities. Brought to you by Ahlquist.
Ever Onward Podcast
Garden Time! Plants, Pets & Zamzows - 92 Years of Business | Ever Onward - Ep. 76
Step into the greenhouse of Idaho’s most enduring family business as Callie Zamzow opens up about the 92-year journey of Zamzows – from accidental beginnings to becoming a beloved institution with 12 thriving locations across the Boise Valley.
The story begins with a missed train when Callie’s great-grandfather stepped off in Meridian for a sandwich and couldn’t get back on – a fortunate mishap that planted the seeds for generations of entrepreneurship. From those humble Depression-era beginnings mixing animal feed on the ground with shovels, the Zamzow family built their legacy one bag at a time, with Callie’s grandmother literally hand-stitching each one.
Today, Callie Zamzow serves as Co-CEO of Zamzows, as well as Dynamite Specialty Products and Zamzow Family Holdings. A Boise State biology graduate, she’s co-led the family businesses since 2004 alongside her father Jim, brother Joss, and husband Clint Scott. With her 18-year-old daughter heading off to college this fall, Callie reflects on the evolution of leadership, legacy, and what it means to truly grow something lasting.
Callie brings us into the fascinating world of her father Jim, the “mad scientist” whose passion for soil health and plant nutrition led to the creation of hundreds of innovative products. His deep understanding of the relationship between microbes, nutrients, and plants became the foundation for staples like “Tomato Boom” that local gardeners swear by. This commitment to soil health isn’t just marketing – it’s a core philosophy that drives everything they do.
After initially resisting the family legacy—including a stint as a stockbroker at Merrill Lynch—Callie describes the moment when returning to Zamzows finally “clicked.” Over the last 25 years, she’s carved out her own leadership identity, one that honors her family’s rich tradition while embracing innovation, clear communication, and personal growth.
What truly sets this conversation apart is Callie’s wisdom about growing not just plants, but people. With around 200 employees during peak seasons, she’s cultivated a workplace culture grounded in passion for animals, plants, and sustainability. The result? A team of true experts who love what they do and the customers they serve.
Outside of work, Callie is also a watercolor artist, writer, podcaster, speaker, and golfer—proof that leadership, like gardening, flourishes when nurtured with creativity and balance.
Want to dig into more garden wisdom? Zamzows is launching a new podcast called The Nobody Knowz this summer, continuing their legacy of practical, region-specific gardening knowledge for Idaho’s unique growing conditions. Subscribe now to grow alongside this remarkable family business.
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Today on the Ever Onward podcast we have Callie Zamzo. She is the CEO of Zamzo's 12 locations here in the Valley, 92-year-old family business started by her great-grandparents. We've been wanting to have her on for a while this is one of our pillar local companies to talk about her family business, the growth of the business and what she does here in the community as a philanthropist. Can't wait to hear today from Callie Zamzo. Prior to hearing from Callie, we will have Mark Cleverley and Holt Haga giving us an Allquist update. Good morning.
Speaker 2:Mark Cleverley, chief Leasing Officer with Allquist, here with Holt Haga.
Speaker 3:Holt Haga, vp Leasing Allquist.
Speaker 2:Development. It's been a few weeks since we did an update here and driving in this morning I thought we could give a quick update on 10 Mile. So by the time this thing hits the streets this update we will be the owners of additional 34 acres out at 10 Mile. We already own 78 acres, so we'll own a total of 112 acres out there. Yeah, so I thought it'd be good to go through, um, just kind of where we're at and um kind of what we're seeing and in the position that we're in right now. So if you want to give a quick update, I'll kind of talk a little bit too about the entire 10 mile area, but give us an update yeah, well, you know it's, it's interesting.
Speaker 3:Um, I remember when we, like when you look at projects we're working on, you know, 10 mile crossing, and I think this is back in 2017, when you know tommy started looking westward and and had you know, I think we started targeting this piece back in like 2017 or 2018.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was back when we were still with Gardner. I remember working on it. It was like 2016. It was really when Paylocity came to town, I mean, and we had no. I mean we had to find a spot for him.
Speaker 3:We had to find a spot, yeah, and so it was the east side of 10 Mile and the freeway on the east side. And no sooner did we. I think we had just delivered Palocity and we were looking at our second project when Tommy was like, hey, there's this other piece over across 10 Mile we need to look at. Yeah, and I don't know, that was maybe a year or two later, maybe 2018, 19. But just thinking about it, how long it actually takes for these things to, like, get momentum and, you know, come to fruition. I think that was the first time we made a run at. It was back then, and so we've been looking at this piece of property for a long time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It was kind of assembled two pieces, but it's a great project, it's it's. It's a great project. It's sort of, I think, when we took down the first piece and now we're taking down this additional 34 acres, which is like a grand slam. It's like checks all the boxes, right, yeah, it's got, it's got, it's got everything um and so um. But when you look at where it's positioned in the valley, it's, it is. It's like it's just such a strong project because a it's on i-84, so you've got the freeway, the exposure, you know 160 000 vehicles per day, highest in the state, by like three times. And then it's bookended by the, the two fastest growing sub markets, you know in our state, right, north meridian and south meridian, yeah, and so it's just it's incredibly strategically located and now, with the new Highway 16 corridor going in right, like you throw a baseball and hit it from this project. It's just like the positioning of the project.
Speaker 2:I can hit a baseball that far you could throw it.
Speaker 3:I could get it like a quarter of the way there. I could hit a golf ball Okay. But it's just like the location. I think, just starting with the location, it's just such a it's like right in the path of development. And so I think when guys like you know, when our team, you know, steps back and looks at this and say, what are we going to do here? Um, is this going to be a successful project? How long is it going to take to stabilize Um, these are all things that we kind of consider. But but the location in and of itself, fundamentally speaking, is really as good as it gets for the unit mix and the product mix that we're talking about, and we can dive into that too. But you know, it's kind of got the project overall kind of has everything right. It's like we've got residential, we've got some industrial, we're going to have office, we've got hotels, and then we've got kind of this like retail power center that we're working on Correct and I wish I mean we'll be ready soon to announce all these groups.
Speaker 2:We're close, we're not quite ready. Yeah, we're not going to jump the gun today.
Speaker 2:As soon as we can. I mean, I think people will see. Oh yeah, it makes a ton of sense why all this activity has come here. Right, so backing up to 10 mile crossing really quick I know we don't have a lot of time, but really quickly we built about a million square feet of office. There's nearly a thousand units of multifamily.
Speaker 2:We met with Shields. I remember flying into Fargo, north Dakota, almost 10 years ago it was like nine years ago. Flying in. It was one of the scariest flights of my life. We don't need to get into that, but it was. So. That took time, right. I mean that took like seven, eight years to even finally get them to open their store.
Speaker 2:So you got Shields over there who, like what we're hearing about their daily visits and their annual visits is off the charts. And then you go across the street and what we're going to add to that is going to be amazing. It's going to be where everybody wants to congregate. It's going to be I mean people, I mean you talk about live work, play wants to congregate. It's going to be. I mean people, I mean you talk about live work, play. It truly is.
Speaker 2:That entire area of 10 miles truly is a mixed use live, work, play, right, I mean it's, it's. It's really cool to be a part of um. We're set to close on it tomorrow, may 15th. Um so excited to get I mean to continue to work at 10 Mile. Right, we filled out of the million square feet that we have out there. We're 100% leased, 100%. We are one like there is no vacancy in our office buildings out there, which is incredible, right. I mean you look at the office market in general and you hear it nationally and people come to our market and they're like how do you guys do it? Like well, I mean, you're strategically located in great projects and we live in a state where people want to go to work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you've got the simple as that Right and you've got a such a critical, fundamental macro economic driver which is probably the strongest economic driver population growth, yeah, I mean. I mean we've got like this funnel of demand and so really it's like we kind of have to deal more with the supply side of the equation and so it's really just, are we overbuilt, underbuilt, are we built to equilibrium? But really it's like the demand side is there. It's kind of interesting. We're very fortunate to find ourselves in that position, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Love it. Well, it's going to be exciting to talk about 10 Mile here in the near future too.
Speaker 3:It's probably worth bringing up too. Just on the retail side, like we've done, you know, kind of our initial, like you know, we go out to very specific sort of uses and groups and restaurants and companies that we really want to see there. Yeah, and we've got commitments from those groups for a handful of the pads. But we're also going to have multi-tenant retail buildings that we're going to be coming. We haven't come to market with those yet, we're going to be coming to market with those. We will have space that is for lease class, a retail space in this power center that we will be announcing some very exciting anchors and all that. But more to come, obviously, and we're excited to sort of bring all this to fruition and come to market with all this stuff. Yep, love it.
Speaker 2:Thanks, man, cool Good update.
Speaker 1:Callie, thank you so much for coming on today.
Speaker 4:Hey, it's my pleasure.
Speaker 1:This will be fun.
Speaker 4:I think so too.
Speaker 1:This will be fun. Well, it's fun to spend some time. I've spent a lot of time in your stores.
Speaker 4:Oh well, thank you, we appreciate that.
Speaker 1:No, I think it's just a staple here in the Valley and your family. The ads on the radio.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:There's a lot to talk about, but let's start by just telling us a little bit about the family business when it started, and just a little bit about you, okay.
Speaker 4:Well, so we Zanzos is a 90, I think we're at 92 years now. Started in 1933 by my great-grandparents. Both of them had come here with their families, so that's the first generation of Idahoans.
Speaker 1:Where did they come from?
Speaker 4:One came from Minnesota and the other one came from Missouri, I think. Yeah, yeah, interesting stories there too. My great-grandfather. Actually. He stowed away on a train with his brother and they were headed to California actually, and they stopped off in Meridian and my grandfather, my great-grandfather, stepped off the train to go get a sandwich and when he came back the train was moving and he couldn't get back on the train and so he stayed here in Meridian and that's how he ended up here. Yeah.
Speaker 1:What a great story. Yeah, it's wild and then. So then and talk about, I mean, coming out West just looking for a new life, looking for, you know, opportunity.
Speaker 4:Exactly, yeah, I think they his brother ended up being a garlic farmer. I think that's what they were ending up to. They wanted to get to California and be farmers and just get away from home. And they had a lot. There were a lot of children and I think they just figured out they needed to head somewhere else. So kind of interesting how they ended up here very accidentally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then talk about the start of the business.
Speaker 4:So 1933, heart of the Depression, my great-grandmother and great-grandfather had a farm. It's actually where the auto mall is, near the mall. That's where their farm was. My great-grandfather decided that they needed to sell it in order to make ends meet. They sold it and ended up buying. The old Snotgrass Mill is what it was called.
Speaker 4:That's the Fairview Avenue store that is there today so that's the very first store and they just started off by mixing feed. Literally, they would mix the feed on the ground with shovels and then they would bag it up and my grandmother would hand sew them. And that's how it all very, very humble, and my brother and I laugh like they did that for 20 years before we got a feed mill. Like 20 years they were doing that.
Speaker 1:That was their work, so started in animal feed ag base certainly exploded into a whole bunch of everything else.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:But at that store that's a great story. Yeah, and then when did it really start growing?
Speaker 4:Oh gosh, you know, my grandfather grew it a little bit, and then my father and his brother are the ones who actually ended up really kind of expanding and blowing things up.
Speaker 1:And your father's, jim.
Speaker 4:Jim, yes, the man.
Speaker 1:Jim from the radio Jim the man right.
Speaker 4:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and talk about the evolution. It made sense probably because they were doing feed. They had all these people there that had the need and filled the need and just kind of kept integrating vertically with what made sense, right more into gardening.
Speaker 4:So I think he's the one who began that process of adding gardening things. And then my dad is a mad scientist. I mean, if he could just be in his lab all day, that's what he would do, and he loves to invent things and he just does all these fun trials.
Speaker 1:How old is your dad now.
Speaker 4:Let's see He'll be 78 this year Still running as hard as ever. Oh, yeah, very much so. Yeah, we always laugh that Zamsos never retire, which I'm not sure that may end with this generation.
Speaker 1:I don't know that it's good for everybody. Yeah, I agree If you've got something you love and if you're cranking away and for sure.
Speaker 4:I know that if my dad, if if he wasn't allowed to continue to invent products, he he'd be very unhappy.
Speaker 1:Gosh, I have so many things I want to ask you, but let's start there because I know kind of the science and kind of the marketing is Idaho soils products for us in the Valley kind of a slant. But talk about the science behind it and why he loves it so much and why it's been so important to your growth.
Speaker 4:I think it was people that he met when he was young, various people that helped him really understand the soil. Primarily, that was his big thing and understanding how nutrients behave in the soil, how the life that is in the soil behaves with the nutrients, and then how the plants behave when you have the nutrients and the life in the soil Always been fascinating to him. He's got this long list of very interesting characters in his life that have taught him various things and he holds onto that data. He's a very smart man so he can tell you stories from way back about all these various things that he learned and how he learned them.
Speaker 1:What's his educational background?
Speaker 4:various things that he learned and how he learned them. What's his educational background? He went to Boise State, I think he technically, I think he was actually doing pre-vet medicine. I think that was the track that he was on and then his father really put the pressure on for him to get a business degree because he wanted him to work in the business and I think that was a turning point for my dad. So he had enough of the biology and understanding the science that he was like okay, that's what I like, but I will do this business.
Speaker 4:I'm just going to figure out how to incorporate what I love into the business. So there was kind of an interesting moment in time, I think, there, where he made the decision okay, I'll go ahead and go with the business, but I'm going to bring the science with me, see what we can do.
Speaker 1:So he formulates truly all of the so in full confession here as a long, long, long time customer, because I lived for 20 plus years down at Chinden and Eagle, okay, and your store's right down the street there, right, so that was where we went for everything.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:So you look at those shelves and the products. How many products did you develop that into?
Speaker 4:I mean, it's it's a lot of them.
Speaker 1:Hundreds, I mean it's, it's a lot of them Hundreds.
Speaker 4:I mean it's a lot. Well, yes, if you include, because so we have the ZAMZO company, but then we also have other companies and we distribute in other ways as well that have nothing to do with ZAMZO.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, there literally are hundreds of products that in some I was laughing with him the other day. He has one right now that he's letting go because and he's like I can't really do anything with it right now because I can't get anybody to pick up and do anything with and I'm ready to move on and do something else, and so he actually has some that we haven't even marketed.
Speaker 1:So it is kind of about the next thing oh, very much he gets bored.
Speaker 4:Once he figures something out and he really understands it, then he's like, okay, I've it's, it's fascinating. And he always has experiments. If you go into the lab he will. He'll come in and say, come look at this. And we'll be like, okay, what am I looking at? What a fascinating you should have had him on with you. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So he just does that's what he does for fun. And then, and then what's the team like? Do you have a team that then I mean it's not as easy as hey figuring this thing out. And then I mean talk about go-to-market and those ideas, and this is an incredible Idaho company, small business, that's doing great things. So how do you scale it then?
Speaker 4:Well, so I think in the beginning, I think he really tried to find partners who could do it, but they didn't understand what he had come up with.
Speaker 4:You know, there wasn't any sort of precedence there. So then he was like all right, well, we're going to figure out how to manufacture this at a bigger scale. So for with the fertilizer products, he just said, all right, I'm going to figure this out. So he, he's a he's a wonderful, you know, figure it out through other people. Like, meet somebody, okay, teach me this. Okay, Now I understand that and I can do this. So, yeah, he, he ended up building his own little fertilizer manufacturing.
Speaker 1:It's the old see one, do one, teach one.
Speaker 4:Yes absolutely. Yeah, yeah, it's very inspirational to watch how he does things, because he just he doesn't really take no for an answer, like if something, if he hits a brick wall, he's like, oh, that didn't work that direction, I'm going to try this direction, and he seems to do that very well. A lot to learn from that and try this direction, and he seems to do that very well.
Speaker 1:A lot to learn from that. Yes, yeah, a lot to learn from that. So then, you do have your own. You have your own. Do you do a lot of the manufacturing here? Do you does that get? Do you have partners in the region? Or how do you produce so much product?
Speaker 4:Well, it depends on the product. But when it comes to the fertilizer, currently we're I mean, we're pretty close to capacity right now, honestly. So we're kind of working on building out, but right now we're able to do our own fertilizer. We handle all that in house, Some of our, you know, we have the feed mill, the Meridian the old feed mill that's still fully operational, still kicking out our formulas, and so that actually has gotten to capacity where we have to have toll millers do some of our milling for us.
Speaker 1:It's incredible that right there downtown yeah. It's so amazing how many people don't think that it's still a functioning mill and it's a very functioning mill and it's very cool because if you think of the heritage of Meridian, I mean Meridian's grown, I mean I can't even believe what Meridian's done right.
Speaker 4:No, it's wild. And you know, when my, when my great-grandfather jumped off the train and ran into town, he was probably running past that mill as it was being constructed. The time frame is such that he probably ran past the construction site.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, and then how long have you owned that mill? I'm just thinking, how long after he ran by it, getting off the train, your family bought it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so probably 30 years later, so in the 50s.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and actually it was a flour mill originally, so for human consumption. So it's a very clean mill. Everything is made so that it can be ingested by humans. So it's a very you know lots of added things that a normal mill wouldn't have.
Speaker 1:Are you also in farming too, then, or do you buy from farmers? We buy from farmers yeah and then have I know what you have. But for those listening, you have actually. Can we go to the website here? So your fertilizer, you got the feed side, the fertilizer feed. I'm just fascinated by how you have so many different things. I know In a little, it's not a little family business, it's a big family business. But how many employees do you have?
Speaker 4:Well, it depends on the season. Right now we're in spring and we're at about 200.
Speaker 1:So all of this, and then Grandma Z's talk about that. What does that refer to?
Speaker 4:So that's considered our high-end, mostly feed items, so high-end things, and our dog foods and things like that. My great-grandma she was was, I think, in her nineties, when they developed that brand and she was very opposed to it. She said I cannot, this is not good. And she kept pushing back and then finally one day she was meeting with my father and she said, jim, will it help the company if we do this brand? And my dad said yeah, it will. And she said, okay, I'll do it.
Speaker 1:So the Grandma Z's is your. Well, here's all the stuff that I've just bought. The tomato boom right.
Speaker 4:Yes, absolutely Fantastic product that's all made with feed ingredients. So we make that out of our feed mill, which is unique. It's not like from our fertilizer division, it's a I mean, it's all very healthy edible items.
Speaker 1:We talked a little bit about that because I know in today's world there's a lot of stuff I listen to and I'm learning about, but just about soils and the depletion of minerals and everything else in the soil. And then the flip side of it is just the safety of what is put on our plants and vegetables and pesticides and what they mean and what's safe and what's not safe.
Speaker 4:What are your?
Speaker 4:thoughts on that my latest thing has just been chemical fertilizer in particular, seem like they're just fine. They're just nutrients. It's not that big of a deal. My concern and it's only because my father has taught me this is what it's doing. On the surface it's really not that big of a deal.
Speaker 4:But when you look at what happens to the living things in the soil, all the microbes and everything that are breaking down things and making things healthy, when we put chemicals in any way, shape or form, even if it's just a fertilizer, it causes a disruption in that balance, and so it matters. It matters what we kind of still have to be even with things that seem so little like what am I going to put on my tomatoes. That matters because in the end you're actually improving or degrading your soil, and on a large scale. We're doing that in farming in general. That's happening On a small scale just in your yard. You'll find that you'll be happier and that everything will be better in your yard if you just try to cut back on things that are affecting the life in the soil.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's always nice when things that are good for soils and environment also line up with what's good, you know. I mean it's good when you have synergies like that, where you're like, hey, take care of it, it's better for you, it's better for the environment. That's when there's a win-win for everybody, right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I agree, I agree, and I think the fun part about my dad's products is that they always work. Yeah, he messes with it and messes with it, and messes with it until he's like that's it Now it works, and it's all stuff that's going to be improving everything else. It's going to be doing a lot of things behind the scenes that you have no idea that it's doing.
Speaker 1:Who comes in behind Jim?
Speaker 4:That's a good question.
Speaker 1:Is there someone else in the family that's got that passion for the science? Part of it.
Speaker 4:There are a mix of people that have various parts of various things, but there's no there's no there's no other jim's he's the og for sure. Yeah, I think I think with the combination of of various people there that we've kind of pieced it together. But you know, as far as just his, he has such a heart for it yeah and it's that's such a unique thing he's really driven to to make the world a better place, starting with the earth, with the soil, soil.
Speaker 1:Do you always have that?
Speaker 4:I think. So you know, he describes when he was a child kind of, you know, not being kind of considered stupid. I think he was told many times as a kid that he was kind of dumb and I think he, and I think that caused him to turn to well, I'm going to figure things out myself. Then If the teacher thinks I'm an idiot, then to well, I'm going to figure things out myself. Then If the teacher thinks I'm an idiot, then I'm just going to go and figure out things on my own. So I think he probably did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think he probably has always had that. It's always what's always interesting I get to. One of the reasons I like doing this is I you learn and talk to fascinating people and hear stories mostly of businesses, small businesses, people that have really been passionate about something and then done great things. But when you hear some of the origin stories right, so clearly there was an origin story before your dad but then you hear the passion, energy, effort, time, commitment there is always a reason that is genuine and authentic and is on fire that burns beneath these folks that do great things.
Speaker 1:It just is, and it's really fun to see it, because you hear the story and you're like, oh, that's why you look at those products that we just scrolled through. They're authentic. There's probably a story behind every single one of them.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, and a lot of times he invents something for one thing, but then he realizes that it's too soon, the public won't get it, and so he's like, well, it also does this, so that's what we'll sell it for, is this? And then people will get the benefit.
Speaker 1:So he's a pretty good marketing guy too.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he does have an idea for that. Yeah, Wow.
Speaker 1:So tell us a little about you and the company growing up. Did you always know you wanted to follow in the path of the family business?
Speaker 4:You know, I think people ask me that. I said I'm almost 50. And like, literally, I'm knocking on 50. When's? Your birthday June 6th. Oh wow, so it's yeah, happy birthday.
Speaker 4:Thank you. Thank you. It's an interesting transition period for me and my daughter is heading off to college this fall, and so there's this, this like kind of reckoning and looking back on like where am I where, what, what was happening before and where I am now. And so I've thought a lot about that. I think as a small child I did, I did want to. I think I always thought that I was going to be part of the family business.
Speaker 4:When I went off to college I wanted to be a veterinarian, and so I kind of went that path and then I couldn't get into vet school. I tried for three years in a row and that was a no-go. And then I still didn't want to turn to the family business. I ended up going to work for Merrill Lynch and tried stockbroking for a while and I really tried to fight it and then when I ultimately came into the business, everything clicked. I was like, oh, I think this is totally what I'm supposed to be doing. And then I kind of embraced it and realized, okay, yeah, this is, and it's been 25 years now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think when you have a family business we talk to people that do. There probably is a little bit of that push and pull thing of hey, it's all I've known growing up. It kind of consumes things, because if you're running a small business and a family business, it's kind of what you do, right? I'm sure your stories of growing up were all involved the business and things surrounding the business. So I understand when sometimes there's this yearning of well, maybe I want to get out of here right Whatever that means.
Speaker 4:Absolutely Well, and I think also that the name is so big and it's been going for so long. How do I be my own person and not be just, you know, another cog, you know, and it's family so. So there's a love part of that, but then there's that individuality where you're like, wait a minute, what mark am I going to make it's very clear what my great-grandfather did, what my grandfather did, what my father has done. Where will I go? Where will I fit in?
Speaker 1:And I think that's where the magic happens, right? If you can find your own passion within something that already has so much legacy and heritage, it's your dang legacy and heritage, right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, absolutely heritage.
Speaker 1:It's your dating legacy and heritage, right? I mean that ZAMZO spirit runs through your blood and if you can then connect to that, I think it becomes a beautiful thing. But you kind of have to get there through your own way, right? And I think people that don't authentically have that drive and passion, then it's a different deal, right?
Speaker 4:Right, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So how many kids did your mom and dad have?
Speaker 4:Two, so my brother and I work together.
Speaker 1:We're actually co-CEOs which is always a topic of conversation.
Speaker 4:I saw that, yeah, how does that go? Is he older or younger? He's older, he's just two years. So we're pretty close in age, we've always been very close, and so this isn't anything new he and I working together and we work kind of in a together and we work kind of in a. Sometimes I'm really amazed at how well we like co-think, we bump into heads. Sometimes, like on occasion, we will bump into each other, and mostly it's because we haven't communicated well. So for he and I, our latest thing has just been working on really really clear communication, which seems really strange for your sibling. You think you communicate with them well, but when you run a business together, the communication has to go to a totally different level, and we've had to explore some interesting things to kind of make sure that we have each other's backs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people that know me get sick of hearing this, but it's that vision, clarity, plan, action, right. Yeah, a lot of great companies, people, things, projects fail without clarity.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And it's just, it's so critical. And the problem with it is I was talking to my partner here, Ryan, about this this week. We get going so fast and hard that the first thing to slip is clarity because, hey, we've got this combined vision and we're going, let's go. But then all of a sudden we're like, hey, where did we get off step here? So it just, you know, it makes, I mean, it's common sense, right, but it takes effort.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Conscious effort to how are we going to communicate? Stay on the same page.
Speaker 4:Exactly, and especially, I think, our team, you know, because my brother and I'll be running and then we'll be like where is everybody? Oh wait, we maybe forgot to tell them, Right?
Speaker 1:So that happens on occasion and something with your team. They trust you. They'll follow you. But if they understand your heart and mind and reason for where you're going, it's better. It's easier to follow and it's a lot more fun and it's a lot more fun.
Speaker 1:And it's a lot more fun, but that takes conscious effort too, right? It does Talk a little bit about that, with that many employees just creating a team. I'm going to tell you we've never talked about this, but I don't know how many years I went to your store over there and so cycled through lots of different employees, but the culture of people was always exceptional.
Speaker 4:I love hearing that.
Speaker 1:Like I don't. I mean I can think of in all those years, never like it was just pleasant and helpful and wonderful and the kindest people. So I think I know the brand, the name means a lot because it's your name on it. But how did you create? How did you and how do you create and maintain a culture?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think that this is something that we're consistently working on. I think that my brother and I are particularly. This is the area that we enjoy the most working with people, developing people and I think that it starts with strangely enough, it just starts with the brand itself, because a lot of employees come to work for us because they like what we do, they like the plants, they like the animals, they like that we're earthy, and so that's why they are even attracted to us. So then we have that like and like together, and so it makes for a you know, it kind of builds itself, I think, but you know, we're always doing things as a group that are in keeping with what we're doing in the business as well.
Speaker 1:So the mission statement vision is not. They're not just words on the wall.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 1:They're the heart, and soul mind of everyone that works there, right.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:As you were saying that, I'm thinking it's also pretty dang pleasant to be working in a nursery.
Speaker 4:Right. Around plants and just generally happy people. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:It is a very good environment, right, and that probably it's not like I don't know other high-pressured, probably places where it's a little harder to do. But customer service is still the same. It is how you interact, how you sell, how you treat people, how you're educated on products. There's still a lot to it.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:How does that work?
Speaker 4:You know, that is one of the biggest challenges that we have, because every spring we get this influx of seasonals that come in and so there's this massive amount of training there has to be. You have to have that spark or the interest in plants, or else they tend to spin out and not stay. Because it's not, it just has to be part of who you are, is that you're interested in learning, and then sometimes what comes out of somebody who's been an employee for three to five years even is these experts.
Speaker 4:They become, you know, pillars in our business, because they are like the foremost expert on this particular type of you know lizard, for instance, and you know it's amazing how that then you know we celebrate that Then they're teaching other people, and so there's this kind of wonderful community of learning. Learning is a big part of what we do.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go all over the place, but I'm going to ask you another question. So I've been fascinated by this because my kids over the years have obviously bought their lizards from you. But how did you decide? Because not all stores are the same and you have some that have animals for sale and some that don't, and then the types of animals you have. You have some exotic things. So whose passion is that and what's that algorithm look like?
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know, in the beginning, I think, the ones who had pet rooms this was before my brother and I. Really, those employees were there for many, many years and they began to develop. Each, each store had their own, you know, development of which animals that they liked or they knew and that sort of thing. Um, it has has continued on in that when we bring people in, they are attracted to, like I want to work in the pet room because I am, you know a fish expert or whatever, and so it I.
Speaker 1:it's so people-centric as far as Well, and hey, I'm assuming there's a lot of new people to the Valley that might be listening to this oh sure, you've seen, as how many stores do you have now in the Valley? 12. So you have 12 stores. So you've driven by one or seen them. But talk through, because it is a big like. You've got the fertilizer, you've got the plants, you've got the gardening, you've got the home there's a little home improvement but then you've got the pet thing. How many of the stores have pets?
Speaker 4:Well, now we actually have all of them do.
Speaker 1:They all do yes.
Speaker 4:Yes, we used to the smaller stores. We used to not have them, but now we and we call it the ZamZoo.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you didn't down in off Chinden.
Speaker 4:Right, exactly.
Speaker 1:The whole time. I think that happened. That was my store, yeah.
Speaker 4:Sometime in the last three years, I think we would have to drive somewhere else with our kids. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Try to talk them out of getting the whole kit, for, whether it was, I never did snakes.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I did everything else, though, and you have lots of fish, you have reptiles, you have reptiles, you have birds.
Speaker 4:Yes, yes, we even have insects now that are exotic insects that people keep in terrariums, and yeah, it's amazing, it's evolving, ever evolving.
Speaker 1:It's diverse. I mean it's like you think about how fun it would be to run something like that, where you get to oversee all of that. Hey, what's it like? I always like women CEOs to ask these questions, but what's it like being a CEO? And being a woman in your industry and in the Valley.
Speaker 4:You know I was speaking with some fellow I don't know if it's fellows when we're women, but we were talking about that. I think what's interesting, particularly about my age group, is that if we are women leaders, we were probably taught how to be a leader by a man. Likely, we were led by a man, which is different. Men lead differently than women do, and I think that for me personally, it's been a journey of learning how to go from a hard edge that I thought I had to have in order to make it and be taken seriously to this much more authentic me. That is now, and I'm so much happier. And it turns out that people like to be led by a leader who's authentic and not one who's trying to be something they're not.
Speaker 3:Isn't that true?
Speaker 4:Absolutely, and there's just so much more joy to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's always an interesting question for me to ask, because I came up through healthcare and most of my leaders and mentors were women.
Speaker 4:How interesting.
Speaker 1:If you think about healthcare, I mean like literally almost the entire way through the leaders of my department, the leaders in the hospital, the leaders were women, and so it was only when I kind of started transitioning out that I'm like, oh, this is just different, right, in fact you'd be in some rooms and there's just not as many women in the corporate banking and that kind of world. So it's been interesting and I would. So it's always, like you just said, most of the leaders you were around were probably men and now you're taking over, but for me it's an interesting perspective.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:What are the traits that you think have helped you? You said authenticity. What are the other tricks of the trade for those listening to? A lot of people listen that are just looking to improve their leadership and the way they mentor and lead other people. What do you find important to you?
Speaker 4:Hmm, I mean, my journey to being more authentic has meant that I've had to look at things that I truly love and the things that make me tick, and I think we have to connect with that. We have to understand that and lean into that and not feel, you know, because I'm a people-y person and I think that sometimes, when I think back on how the prior generations of the Zanzos ran things and what their personality types were, it's very different than mine, I think. For a long time I tried to deny myself that, and so I think, in order to be a good leader, you do have to find your authentic self and own it and be holy yourself. I think continuing education is a must. That's great, yeah. Just, you always try to learn and grow, and it doesn't necessarily have to be through books, I think that's great. And seminars, that's great.
Speaker 1:I think it's getting to know other people and learning from them and how they did things and leaning into that too. Don't you think that's one of the great, I think, misconceptions when you're younger is that somehow the people above you have kind of just figured it out. And then, as you get older, I think the people that I like being around the most are the ones that are just always learning, always. Hey, did you read this? Did you see that? Did you listen to this? And not just actively looking for ways that they might improve what the strengths that they have, but they're also looking for their own weaknesses, absolutely.
Speaker 4:Because I think, as you get, older, I'm not, hey, listen that was super sensitive. Callie, it's not sensitive at all. Actually, I'm excited about being 50, so no biggie you are.
Speaker 1:I am Okay, I wasn't, it was a big one for me, but I think you start getting a little more reflective.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I don't think you stop growing. I think I'm 57 now or 58. Yeah, 57 now or 58. But you look at growth and maybe blind spots and things that I did, that I could have been a better leader, I could have been a better dad, I could have been a better husband. I could have been a better whatever. And I think, admitting that and saying, hey, there's some things I've learned along the way that it's hard, though when you look back sometimes You're like I probably should have handled that different.
Speaker 4:It's some of the hardest stuff ever to look back and regret and then you know, kind of give yourself a hug and say you did what you did at the time.
Speaker 1:It was the best you could do.
Speaker 4:And with the tools you had, you have new tools now.
Speaker 1:That's why you can see it differently now and say I should have done that differently. I'm older than you, but I think that is something new. With our generation maybe, and our kids, I think there's a little bit more reflection than I think of my father or my father-in-law. I think that generation before us stayed pretty stoic and hard and I think it's okay to say, hey, I might have had that wrong.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely yeah. I think also, as I send my daughter off to college, I'm thinking back on what led to where we are now. There's a lot of thinking back right now about those kind of things and I find myself when she was younger I kind of kept that all to myself. Now that she's 18 and she's heading out, I find myself actually expressing it to her. Hey, remember, when this happened, I kind of wish I'd have done that differently. Which has been these conversations are? I mean, I could eat them with a spoon. They're just so good and delicious. And to have her say, oh, that's not how I saw it at all, and then talk it through.
Speaker 1:That is awesome.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's really cool.
Speaker 1:Isn't it awesome?
Speaker 4:It really is I agree.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I've been more reflective lately. I don't know. I don't know why, and I'm taking. I think, when you get inspiration, or whatever you want to call it, to express yourself to someone you love, you just got to jump all over it, like. I'm just thinking of this last week I was listening to a Luke Combs song and it was about his dad and the line was the S on his chest is starting to fade and I stopped exactly in my tracks and I wrote my dad a big long text.
Speaker 1:Like I was crying the whole time I did, and I just said, and I, because that's kind of I, I see him as my. You know, this guy that was just just superman and never was going to get older yeah and he is. He's sounds like he's about the same age as your, your father, but um, but I, but man. It meant a lot to him that I would stop and like, reflect and say those words, but we need to do more of that. I.
Speaker 4:I agree. I agree, and it's interesting because we are, I guess we're considered the sandwich generation. We're between our aging parents and our children that are adults now, and so it is an interesting space to pause for a moment and reflect on both and really be fully present and not just rush through this particular phase, because I think this is really important.
Speaker 1:I'm sure the one other thing I wanted to touch with you is mentorship. In your role, you probably have the ability to help and mentor a lot of people that work for you around you. You're very influential, do you enjoy? That is the first question.
Speaker 4:That's one of my favorite things, absolutely one of my favorite things. When you talk about things that make our hearts sing that is what makes my heart sing.
Speaker 1:And then in that, do you have any advice? Because I think one of the big concerns I have as I look at my life now is, I think, the busyness of life, the introduction of just I'm not this is not a negative on media or social media or whatever I just think that there's not very much quiet time in our lives now there's just not.
Speaker 1:And I think most of the time where I really was mentored by someone I think back to those times in my life it seemed quiet, it seemed like for me and my mentor that there was times that we were able to reflect and connect. And I'm wondering if I create enough of those opportunities, when I'm quiet and reflective, to mentor someone and then I'm. The second thing is are they in a place to really make those connections?
Speaker 4:It seems like you have to be more deliberate today than in the old days Much more, with things being able to just be so right in your face and you can get quick answers to things, and the stopping you almost have to, I think, the first time have it be a forced put all these things in place to make it happen and then, once you've felt it, then it will constantly, it'll be there.
Speaker 1:It feels good.
Speaker 4:It feels real good.
Speaker 1:And you're like. I want to do more of that. But, that's been my latest thing. I'm going to try to consciously slow down and have interactions with the people that I love either way and make sure that I'm still. You know, I don't know. I think it's good to get old.
Speaker 4:I think so too. This is why.
Speaker 1:I say I'm not unhappy about turning 50. Well, this is great. You got a new podcast out. Let's talk about that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so we had the old ZAMZO show. It's still on At this point. It's still on in KBOI on Saturday mornings. It used to be that people would call in and we would answer questions and that was kind of the ZAMZO show.
Speaker 1:By the way, it was awesome.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was very fun. It kind of ran its course. The reason why it ran its course is that nobody wants to work on Saturday morning and answer radio calls, so we've struggled with finding somebody who's willing to do that. But with podcasting you can obviously do some of the same things and people can listen whenever they want. So we're actually revamping the podcast It'll be rolling out here this summer. It'll be called the. Nobody Knows.
Speaker 1:So the Nobody Knows with a Z at the end yes, exactly. And be able to be found on any one of the, any one of the. I'm sure that your topics will be much like your Saturday show was.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Great stuff and for people here in the Valley, very, very, very practical things.
Speaker 4:Yes. Like things that you would go oh, I've never done it that way and I should probably do it the way Grandma Z's been doing it for a long time, exactly, and we want to build in some cultural things too, about Boise and who we are and that sort of thing. So yeah, it'll be good stuff. Yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 1:That's great, and what else, business-wise, anything else. While you're here, our time went by way, way, way fast.
Speaker 4:It did go very fast. This was a lovely conversation.
Speaker 1:But zamzoscom, all your links there For anyone that hasn't been in a store nicest people, greatest products. I mean. I will tell you, though I'm not, grandma Z Shannon and I we're planning our garden this weekend. We're going to come grab our stuff, but we've gone from being pretty prolific, like I don't know how many items we would put in there, to I think we're basically down to like a few kinds of tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, jalapenos. I think we're giving up on pumpkins this year.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean you get real practical After you've done the big garden. You kind of get practical.
Speaker 1:We still love it, but we're just. I don't know.
Speaker 4:Easier things. There's something about a garden. I mean it really. It is work, you know.
Speaker 1:So having a smaller garden. It's so fun though, isn't it it?
Speaker 4:is, and there's just something about picking something that you grew. It's awesome and eating it, and it tastes better.
Speaker 1:Making salsa every year. It's so great. It is great, but over the years I know this is weird. I can think of what it smells like in there. Does that probably make sense to you, right it?
Speaker 4:does I know the smell?
Speaker 1:Because when you walk into any of these Amso's, it has the same smell of the soil and the greenhouse. And it's got to be lovely to have that memory because it is earthy.
Speaker 4:It's earthy. That's a really good example. Yeah, that's really cool.
Speaker 1:Hey, well, we appreciate what you do in the community. I mean, that's the other thing we didn't hit on. Maybe that's a place you could end is how much you love this place, Because I know ZAMZO's gives back. I mean, you're like you think of the pillar companies born here, Like this company starts and makes means so much to this valley. What does the community mean to you and your family?
Speaker 4:It's everything. It really is everything. I think ZAMZOs plunked in a different community wouldn't exist. I think Boise and ZAMZOs go hand in hand. People have asked if we think about moving out of the valley, and we have, and we might at some point. It'll be an interesting experience because I think that there's something about Boise and ZAMZOs that work really really well together.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for coming on and for what you do. It's been really fun to catch up.
Speaker 4:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Thanks everybody.