Ever Onward Podcast

The Fight for Idaho’s Towns and Reproductive Freedom with Kelley Packer | Ever Onward Ep. 81

• Ahlquist. • Season 1 • Episode 81

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What happens when small towns can no longer afford to exist—and when personal healthcare freedoms are put at risk in the same state?

In this powerful episode of Ever Onward, Kelley Packer—Executive Director of the Idaho Association of Cities, former state legislator, and co-founder of the Idaho Contraceptive Education Network (ICEN)—joins us for a candid conversation about two urgent and deeply personal battles playing out across Idaho.

First, we dig into the looming crisis facing local governments. With over 80% of Idaho cities home to fewer than 5,000 residents, recent property tax restrictions have left small towns without the means to fund essential services. In fact, three historic Idaho communities have already dissolved completely. Packer describes how cities are being forced to “manage to bad policy,” holding together critical infrastructure with “bailing wire and duct tape” while warnings from local leaders continue to be ignored at the state level.

Then, the conversation takes a surprising turn.

A pro-life Republican and longtime public servant, Kelley shares why she’s become a leading voice for protecting access to contraception in Idaho. After the overturning of Roe v. Wade, she and two fellow Republican women launched ICEN to ensure Idahoans have the education, resources, and freedom to make informed decisions about family planning. She draws a clear line between contraception and abortion and explains how birth control is essential not only for reproductive autonomy, but for economic stability, workforce participation, and the treatment of medical conditions like endometriosis and ovarian cysts.

We also explore:

  • Why property tax reform has created unintended consequences for local government
  • How civil discourse can build common ground in divisive times
  • The personal stories that drive Kelley’s advocacy for contraceptive access
  • What’s at stake if Idaho doesn’t act on either issue

Kelley Packer’s unique perspective—shaped by years of public service, personal experience, and a deep love for Idaho—offers a rare, unfiltered look at two of the most pressing issues facing the state today.


Resources Mentioned:

🏛 Idaho Association of Cities → idahocities.org

💊 Idaho Contraceptive Education Network → IdahoCEN.com

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Speaker 1:

Today on the Ever Onward podcast we have Kelly Packer, a longtime friend. Former legislator, ran for lieutenant governor in the state and now has been serving for six years as the executive director of the Idaho Association of Cities. She most recently has formed a new group called the Idaho Contraceptive Education Network, or ICEN. It will be great to get caught up with Kelly on all things about cities and government and then this important initiative that she has started that surrounds contraception and protecting that right in Idaho. Kelly Packer, how have you been?

Speaker 2:

I've been doing really well, yep. Family's good Family's've been doing really well, yep.

Speaker 1:

Doing great, family's good.

Speaker 2:

Family's really really doing well. All my kids are married and having kids. I have nine grandkids and life's wonderful.

Speaker 1:

Oh my goodness, there's nothing better than grandkids. Amen to that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, my mom used to always say you know, grandkids are your reward for not killing your kids, and I really took exception to that because I was one of the kids right. But now I get it, Are they close by? I've got one daughter and three of my grandchildren are here in Caldwell. The others are still in Southeast Idaho but they're still close, either Pocatello or Shelly, and they're wonderful. I go home a lot.

Speaker 1:

It's the best Yep.

Speaker 2:

Agreed.

Speaker 1:

It's the best. I have three and man every day, and man every day. It's funny because my daughter, brooklyn, has three. I used to always say when she was little a day without the Diddy ain't a day worth living. That was her nickname.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that's cute.

Speaker 1:

And now it's kind of transitioned to her kids.

Speaker 2:

It's like a day without seeing those kids. It's amazing, but there's a reason we have kids when we're young. I had my four-year-old and one-year-old granddaughter and grandson last weekend for an extended stay and oh my goodness.

Speaker 1:

I was like I'm too old for this. We went down to Lagoon last weekend but Cash sleeps with us every night in the hotel and he's our guy. And how old is he? Five. But man, that kid's internal alarm clock. It doesn't matter how hard you go the next day, before what time you go to bed 5.45, and it's like Papa, papa, it's time, it's time I love it.

Speaker 2:

Let's go Wasting the sun.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so I know what you're saying, yeah, they leave and you just like go. Oh, I'm old.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you for coming on. I have fond memories of our time traveling around the state together, and you and your RV, my big RV. Yeah, so for people listening, kelly ran for lieutenant governor in 18. 18, yep. The same year. I was running for governor. So we went to all the same Lincoln days together.

Speaker 2:

It was a trek, wasn't it A?

Speaker 1:

lot of work. Listened to each other's speeches.

Speaker 2:

Over and over Hundreds and hundreds of times.

Speaker 1:

It's really funny. Matthew used to be able to do it, so Janice McGee and Anna Witt and I still to this day, I still there was. How many of you were in the race?

Speaker 2:

There was five, and that's the whole reason.

Speaker 1:

There were five in the race right she won, but I still swear I would put any amount of money amount. The only reason she won was it was the only clearly female name.

Speaker 2:

Agreed. I actually had somebody say to me why don't you change your name to just Y instead of E-Y? And I was like well, because this is what my parents named me. I don't want the campaign that you know. I don't want the election that much.

Speaker 1:

Anyway, matthew used to be able to do kind of a spot on impression of her speech, because you hear each other's speeches the whole time, right? Anyway, he would break into that for years afterwards and it would always be just the crowd favorite. But anyway, it was fun. Got to see Idaho, got to love Idaho.

Speaker 1:

Oh, beautiful state yeah, and some good times, good memories, and you meet people in ways that you just wouldn't get to know them otherwise. And so then you went from there to now. You've been the director of the Idaho Association of Cities for Going on six years now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's been wonderful.

Speaker 1:

And I know that's not kind of what you're here to talk about today, but tell us a little bit about the Idaho Association of Cities.

Speaker 2:

Oh, it's an amazing organization that's been around for what? 78 years now and it's been an honor to be their executive director for the last five and a half From the campaign. I actually went and led an agency for Governor Little for a year and a half and then had some of my mayors from when I was a legislator from down in Southeast Idaho area reach out and say you know, we've been without an executive director for a number of months and we'd love to have you come and lead that organization if you would. And it took me a minute to make that decision, but I'm glad I did. We get to help them with all of their education and technical assistance and support, but also a really important role is the advocacy that we do for them at the Statehouse and in DC on city issues and there's a lot of them right and very important to everyone.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and you're doing such a great job. I also. It's strange because you know the community you live in and most of our population is here in the Treasure Valley, just the way it is. So when we think of mayors, we think of Mayor Simpson and Mayor McLean Sure, and you just think of these big city mayors and the great work they do. One of the things for me when I traveled around and met with people, I met with almost every mayor in every town we ever went to and the job is heavy. It's huge.

Speaker 2:

You figure out of our 197 cities, 165 have 5,000 or less people. It's a part-time mayor.

Speaker 1:

So 165 have 5,000 or less part-time mayor.

Speaker 2:

Part-time council trying to just take care of the community.

Speaker 1:

I remember being in cafes with these guys and gals and sitting down and saying, hey, what are your challenges? And a lot of times they would break out into tears and they would just say, hey, we have a water or sewer treatment plant, we have a school that's falling down, we have roads that we can't fix, we have staff we can't keep and honestly you would want to help but you would go.

Speaker 2:

Where do I?

Speaker 1:

start. I'm so sorry. I'll pray for you and I don't know what to do.

Speaker 2:

Right and that's why the association is so important, because we work really hard trying to educate legislators about the policy decisions they make and how that impacts, a lot of times negatively, those communities that are trying to hold things together and our businesses and our citizens and everybody relies on that infrastructure. You know the city is that that first core infrastructure areas that you know goes, trickles out into the county and then trickles out into the state and so forth. I mean the majority of our roads are local roads that are here in the state. The water and sewer, it's all city. You do have some sewer and water districts but they're few and far between it's. Yeah, I mean it's the core of what makes up Idaho's economy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think one of the most important things you do, the advocacy work you do is at the legislature you serve. How many terms did you serve there?

Speaker 2:

Three, three terms. So you know how that process works or doesn't, as the case might be and there.

Speaker 1:

I think one of the things that you see like I always bring. It's a great example. Because in medicine, right, when you learn medicine, it's the Hippocratic Oath first do no harm, right, right. And a lot of times these bills that pass are often targeted at specific issues in a specific jurisdiction right, absolutely, true, a specific jurisdiction right, absolutely. And because Ada County and Canyon County are so large, or Bonneville County some of the counties in our state are so large, you'll have a lot of these bills and legislation that will target issues that voters and constituents see as issues there and oftentimes the downstream effects of how that legislation will affect everybody else. You're there to fight and protect and help and educate.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, it's really a key component of what we do at the association. I mean, the other key component is then helping them facilitate relationships and conversations with people that can help maybe make ends meet, especially in those smaller jurisdictions. But, yes, that is one of the most important things we do Because I mean, like last year, we had 75 bills that came out that would impact cities either positively or negatively, and that's pretty typical.

Speaker 1:

So what are some? The bill that capped it's killing cities.

Speaker 2:

It's killing cities. We've lost three cities since that bill passed. Yeah, so talk about that cities since that bill passed.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so talk about that bill in a little bit, because I think everyone I talk to brings the bill up. They're like this is House Bill 389. I'll never forget the number, and 389 was supposed to. I think the intention was hey, we're going to try to help protect taxpayers, and what it really does. And the hypocrisy is it. They say growth, pay for growth, but it basically did the opposite. Right, so you had a bill that was intended for one thing, that has done the opposite thing, but it's not going. It hasn't gone away.

Speaker 2:

I mean no because the egos that are involved in that bill won't let it go away and we've had lots of conversations with them about exactly what it's doing.

Speaker 2:

I mean it. It passed in 2021. In 2022, we lost Atomic City, which is one of the oldest cities in Idaho, and it's now gone because they could no longer meet the revenue needs for the water and sewer treatment plant. They had put together a five-year and 10-year plan to do improvements that were critical to the health and safety of that water and sewer system and couldn't do it, so they had to unincorporate, which meant that that went to the counties. Who's not in the water and sewer business? So they had to find a private entity or a sewer and water district I don't know which one they did to take it over. The need doesn't go away. And then in 2023, we lost Hamer, and then last year we lost Oxford. This year we have three looking at unincorporating because they just can't meet the need with revenues.

Speaker 2:

And the way property tax was set up and worked well for over 20 years was that it was a 3% cap. We already had a cap. We already had a cap Over the last three years, right? And then plus, plus, plus, and those pluses were new construction, which is growth, annexation of an area that's grown in the county that's coming into the city, which is growth or reclassification. And what they did is they took a percentage. It changed the percentage so you can't capture 100% of the value, only 80 or 90, depending on what we're talking about and then they capped it at 8%. So let's say a city takes the full 3%, which most cities didn't Usually it was around the one one and a half percent area and then they bank the rest for future needs, capital improvement needs down the road. But let's just say they take the full 3%, that means they only have another 5% that they can access from those other categories and you look like a city of star that's had an average of about 20% growth over the last 5, 10 years.

Speaker 2:

Well, if they can only take 5% of that 20% growth, who's paying for the additional service demands? What do they say to that? It falls on deaf ears. I really can't answer that, tommy. I don't know. It's really mind-boggling to me because I've said really there's only three ways to reduce homeowner property taxes. That is to either shift and balance it different between all the different taxpayers the corporate and utilities and homeowners which nobody wants to do and that's fine. Reduce services, which most people don't want to do, because the bulk of the budgets in municipalities is emergency services. So you want our police fire, our medical ones to be reduced right, and then the only other thing is to increase other revenue streams, local option tax, for example, or something of that nature. And that is not going to happen Again, because of those same folks.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for explaining. We've talked about it before on this podcast, but the irony of all ironies is somehow the legislature is getting away with cutting police fire. They're cutting services that people need and not allowing growth to pay for growth Right right, and I've even said this if our infrastructure deteriorates and defaults completely, who pays?

Speaker 2:

The state's going to ultimately pay, because commerce doesn't travel on gravel roads and infrastructure. Businesses the majority of businesses are in a city footprint and they rely on the water, they rely on the sewer, they rely on the streets. They, you know, for all of that.

Speaker 1:

So is there? Do you think there's like like in some of these issues we're facing right now with policy that's just not good policy? Is it just things have to get bad enough before there's a breaking point, because otherwise they don't listen and that's kind of it's a.

Speaker 2:

In fact I've even said that to my members. It's a defeatist kind of attitude.

Speaker 1:

It's really sad, but it kind of like is it's going to have to get really bad before they do something?

Speaker 2:

Yes, and don't get me wrong, I've sat in those seats. I know it's hard to be a legislator. It's just like any elected official. There's pros and cons to everything you do. People that want you to do something.

Speaker 2:

One way and a group that want you to do it. You got to make the best decision with what you've got. I get that, and it's not always easy, especially when you've got people calling and complaining about their property taxes. I'm not criticizing them for that at all, but work together with the folks, these stakeholders, to find the right solutions, instead of just making these assumptions and doing things that are harmful. And what I've started telling my members because those elected officials at the local level are some of the best you'll ever find I said you've got to stop managing to the bad policy, and what I mean by that is every time something happens, they just get out the bailing wire and the duct tape and they make it work and nobody knows. And I said you've got to stop doing that. People have got to feel it, otherwise it's never going to get better.

Speaker 1:

And that it's against our human nature, because everyone you know the Idaho way and the heritage is hey, you tell me I can't do it, I'll figure out a way, Right?

Speaker 2:

But we're going to go off a cliff if we don't start having real conversations about this.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you for what you're doing for people listening Um any any way that common citizen business owners can get involved to help with this. What suggestions do you have?

Speaker 2:

First and foremost, reach out to me. At the Association of Idaho Cities, we're always looking for people to partner with, and then you know.

Speaker 1:

So the URL is Association of Idaho Cities.

Speaker 2:

Right there Great website, idahocitiesorg, idahocitiesorg, and it's got all of our staff contact information, including mine, and I'm always willing to have meetings with folks that are wanting to talk about infrastructure or how they can partner with that public-private partnership.

Speaker 1:

And then I guess the other advice would be to meet with their mayors. Absolutely the other advice would be to meet with their mayors, Absolutely the one thing that I came away with my experience, and you probably had a similar experience when we were out together on the campaign trail but you look at government efficiencies and government spending I think all taxpayers are worried about hey, how are we using our taxes, how are we doing things? I think once you get to the city level, especially at those, I mean, you sit down with those folks and go through their budget and most of the time you're like God bless you. How on earth, how on God's green earth, are you pulling this?

Speaker 2:

off. How are?

Speaker 1:

you running this city?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

So I think that's, and then you have the big halves right, and then you can start arguing oh, are we doing this or that or the other? Whatever? And that's where a lot of the ethos of this stuff comes from as well, we're going to go hammer them for doing this or that or the other Right, but for a majority of these cities it's not even. It's not. They're not even close to having the dollars to even exist, let alone misuse or misappropriate funds.

Speaker 2:

And there's a lot of things that are just not happening within a city jurisdiction at this point because they can't. You know projects that need to get done and they're deferring that maintenance which is never healthy, even in our bigger cities you know Meridian and Boise absolutely Because of that 8% cap. It's ironic when I've shared that same thing. There's three ways to reduce and I said that at an ATI conference and I got cornered by a legislator afterwards and they said you forgot one. And I said oh really, what's that? And they said reducing your budgets and I said no, that was number two. That was the reducing of services, because there's not fluff in these budgets. Just to your point, tommy, sit down with you, name the city and I will make the appointment for us and I'll go with you and we will go through the budget. You're not going to find frivolous spending, it's just not there it's not there and all of the as business owners.

Speaker 1:

Uh, whatever the industry we're in, you think of the constraints on costs right now, labor right now, these cities, it's that you know, if you look at and this is going to sound bad, but it just is If you look at a lot of the places we get our employees from, over time, it's people that have been in cities because they're already paying them a little less, they're already constrained a little more, and they've got talented people, so they're trying to keep their talented people. And you've got private industry saying oh, so you think of the constraints on just employment, for sure, and keeping people, and then you've got police and fire, anyway we could probably talk about this forever, and I know that's not why you had me on.

Speaker 1:

But we're going to, so idocitiesorg meet with your mayor, kelly would meet with anyone who wants to get involved or talk about this. Okay, thank you for coming on today.

Speaker 2:

Thank you.

Speaker 1:

You have been very involved with the Idaho Contraceptive Education Network, yes, and I have followed along. This has been, I think, as a physician. I've been involved in a couple ways with just legislation that has passed. I mean, we had Roe v Wade getting overturned. I've went and met and talked to a bunch of OBGYNs. We have owned large medical groups. We have employed OBGYN doctors I freaking worked in an ER for a long time, right. So this is an issue that any time a change like that happens, there are going to be policies that affect people and people's lives. So as part of that, your network was set up and I'm kind of doing an intro here and then I'll let you talk to say, one of the concerns that everyone has had is okay, abortion is law and here's what's happening, and it's happening nationally in the state. How is that going to affect women's rights when it comes to contraception? Sure, I'll shut up and let you talk, kelly.

Speaker 2:

Well, and that's exactly why we got involved and, I'll be honest, it was because I am so passionate about this the access to contraceptive care and how it's impacted my own life as well as my daughter's lives and Will, at some point, my granddaughter's that I got involved Because, you know, going back to what we were just talking about, I sit on 18 different boards on behalf of cities, so I didn't need one more board, right?

Speaker 1:

But when I was 18? 18. I'm going to stop feeling sorry for myself.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because you've got everything from local roads to water and sewer and police. I mean you sit on the post council, et cetera. I mean, yeah, 18 boards being the city representative, and so I didn't need one more. But as I talked with a group of friends and amazing individuals about this particular issue after Roe v Wade was overturned, we knew that we had to do something, at least to protect what we currently had as far as access to contraceptive, but also to hopefully increase that access, and so that's the whole reason why increase that access, and so that's the whole reason why Laurie and Tara and I banded together and we're co-founders of ISIN and have worked hard over the last couple of years to ensure that that important healthcare tool didn't get lost.

Speaker 1:

So let's get to the nitty gritty of this. Is that all right for listeners? You bet. And then we'll ask how people can help. So with abortion, it's a very charged issue with a lot of people. In fact, people say just avoid that topic because people have very strong feelings and you just don't know where they sit. This is not even talking about that feelings and you just don't know where they sit. This is not even talking about that. What we're talking about is and, by the way, I think, pro-life, pro-choice. There's a lot of things back and forth. It would be a great discussion anyway, but when you pass legislation, especially from a physician's point of view, where the mother's health and wellbeing cannot be taken care of, that's another issue that we're not talking about today. We're talking about contraception and the idea that if someone in their belief system believes that life begins at conception egg versus fertilization then birth control is illegal. That's what we want to avoid. But but that. But there are those opinions, just that, that's for sure, and they've always existed.

Speaker 1:

they've always existed and so and so the idea. And so most birth controls, just to get really specific, stop implantation of a fertilized egg. Right, right, almost all them. So, whether it's an IUD or the pill, that's what it does, right? And so the irony of this is most people, their families, their loved ones themselves, their daughters, their granddaughters, have all used birth control successfully, and it's part of planning and it's part of life. But the problem is there is an effort out there to push that choice that someone can make on family planning and birth control away, because they're pulling it into the abortion issue.

Speaker 2:

Right, and that's what we are trying to help avoid. We need to decouple those two conversations, because contraceptives will help. It doesn't terminate life, like an abortion does. It keeps it from happening. Yes, right, and there's a big distinction. They are two separate issues and we need to make sure that we don't conflate those. But that's what some would like to do, and if we allow that to happen and that's another reason why we got involved is to make sure that that education was available on our website, that you can take a look at all the varied types of contraceptives because there's a lot of different types and find out about that type of contraceptive and make more informed decisions about how you thoughtfully plan for your family or not, depending on all your varied needs. But it's not just about that, and that's another thing that we have really tried to stress. There are teenage kids, regardless of religious belief, that have been put on those to help with other things like cysts and endometriosis and lots of even painful menstruation, including my own daughter.

Speaker 1:

It was funny because I Including my daughter. Yes, I mean, this is yes.

Speaker 2:

And so I-.

Speaker 1:

It's a medical treatment for hormone regulation, for whether it's painful, menses, or Right.

Speaker 2:

There's so many other things. Yeah, absolutely it's about women's health yes Period and then them being able to make also thoughtful decisions about family planning, which is so critical, whether it's because they're in school and they want to delay it for a time, or whether they want to delay in between kids because of financial constraints. Whatever the case might be, there's a lot of really important reasons why contraceptives are so important and we need to protect that access, if not increase it.

Speaker 1:

Let's talk about some of the resources. So again here's the URL it's Idaho… IdahoCENcom, cencom, idahocencom and walk us through some of the resources that are out there for people that may be able to go find them and how they can share them.

Speaker 2:

There's your board Wow, yep, and great women. I love serving with those two ladies. They are phenomenal. And we're also very blessed to have a group at Atlas Strategic Communications with Amanda Watson in charge that help us with the messaging and keeping this website going. Watson in charge that help us with the messaging and keeping this website going.

Speaker 2:

But one can join the network so that we can help build the strength across the state so that when we are in the advocacy season and might need to find stories and or support from the average citizen in reaching out to legislators, that's really important, so we encourage folks to join us for that very reason. It's also been a really good outlet for people to tell their stories and that is such a heartwarming experience for me as a board member to be able to read how contraceptives have helped women of all ages through different things, whether it's a health struggle or whether it's proper planning for their future. But then you can also go and find on our website actual medical, factual medical information about each contraceptive type so that you can learn more and you can be prepared before you go in and talk with your physician, and it explains out how each works, including those for men, as you can see, and so it's just. It's a great site and we hope that people will get more involved in this important conversation.

Speaker 1:

Pete, isn't some of this a little counterintuitive? If you're pro-life and you're anti-abortion and you're anti.

Speaker 2:

I would say just the opposite, because to me at least this is the way I look at it, and often I have said to family and friends it's a no-brainer to me that if you have access to contraceptives, for whatever reason, it's going to help decrease unnecessary abortions.

Speaker 1:

No, that's what I'm saying, I mean, that's what's weird. It's like, yes, we should be encouraging all of this education.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying something just the opposite. I was like, no, this helps us do just the opposite.

Speaker 1:

No, I'm saying like this fully harmonizes with not having abortions.

Speaker 2:

In fact, if you're pro-life, you should, you should be pro-contraception.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I guess I remember the first time I heard about you putting this group together and my first thought was well, wait a minute. I know Kelly, I know she's very pro-life. Very, very, very pro-life and we're on the campaign trail together and then I'm like why do we need this thing? Why do we need this network? Because it should be hand-in in hand with reducing unwanted pregnancies, and that's why we need it.

Speaker 2:

because there's this false narrative out there right now at the national level and it's starting to trickle into our state and we wanted to be ahead of the game when we saw that happening, we said no, we need Idahoans to have factual information about this so that they can stop that false narrative, because that's harmful.

Speaker 2:

And the other thing you know, we were very intentional. We will. This is not, this shouldn't be a partisan issue, but you'll notice, our board's made up of three Republican women. Laurie served in the House and Senate or House, and ran for the Senate as a Republican. I served in the House as a Republican. Tara also ran for the Senate as a Republican. I served in the House as a Republican. Tara also ran for the Senate as a Republican. And that was intentional because, unfortunately, there are some Republicans that are trying to make this a partisan issue, and so we said we, as Republican women, want to take this stand and say no, this isn't a partisan issue and as pro-life Republicans, we are going to be the ones to message what exactly this is.

Speaker 1:

I don't even know who's making it. You probably know the actors, but they're probably Republican men.

Speaker 2:

They could be. Some of them are yes, I will admit that but not all of them. I've been surprised by some of the Republican women that I've had great conversations with about this, and they are whether it's because they've already been given this bad information and their opinion has been molded by that misinformation. It's been interesting to even have some of those conversations with women.

Speaker 1:

How.

Speaker 2:

This last legislative session were there bills that were considered that were worrisome no, but the session before there, um, as there had been some legislation to try to encourage better access for 12 month periods six month or 12 month periods from um, from insurance agents, right, or from insurance companies, I should say, to allow that, because really it'd only been you could do three months at a time, and especially in our rural, rural areas, you can't always, it's not always easy enough to get in and get a, you know, every three months to get another refill on that, and so we did help encourage the passing, finally, of a bill that had been out there for probably four or five years running. That would increase that to a 12-month supply, which is wonderful, so we're thrilled about that. There were rumors about some bills coming out, and we always are watching it very closely this past year, but there wasn't anything specific that attacked contraceptive access. So you know it's funny.

Speaker 2:

That year prior, though, when we were having the conversation with different legislators, I was visiting with a gentleman from Southeast Idaho, a friend of mine that I'd served with, and he says you know, I just don't think I can be there, and I think, probably from the same aspect that you were thinking when you saw that I was going to be on this board. Right, he's very pro-life and he was saying I just don't want to encourage that type of promiscuity or whatever. And I says well, you know what, it's not just about that. And I shared the story about my daughter needing them because of her painful, painful menses and I said so we ended up having to put her on when she was 14. And he sat back and it was so funny to watch this aha moment with him. He said, oh my word, I think we had to do that with my daughter too. I better call my wife. And he does. And he gets back with me later that day. He says yeah, I'm there, I'll support you. Because I guess she basically said to him absolutely you will.

Speaker 1:

Is that the angle that they're taking? Is that somehow birth control?

Speaker 2:

equals yeah, especially for, yeah, teens and and things I'm like. Well, it's not just about, are we not?

Speaker 1:

past that kelly, for hell's sakes we should be. I mean for hell's we I know we should be.

Speaker 2:

I'm like what year is this?

Speaker 1:

but yeah, not with everyone I mean I know, but again, like if you truly are, if you're truly pro-life and you're not against abortion against abortion, then then we ought to be giving then even yes, even if it is about curiosity and promiscuity.

Speaker 2:

you should want that out there so that you don't have these unwanted abortions. Yes, no, we're not trying to encourage that. We're trying to encourage thoughtful conversations and education about all varied needs and situations we all find ourselves in.

Speaker 1:

Do you guys so website information join the network? Any other? Do you guys have an event every year? Do you have any?

Speaker 2:

uh, you know we haven't had a uh like a set time, but we've been trying to um join, you know, help fairs and other things around the state, um, not even just here in treasure Valley, but up North and Southeast Idaho everywhere places to volunteer.

Speaker 1:

Um on here, if, if, if people are interested.

Speaker 2:

Yes, as part of that joining. As you fill that out, then we will ask you at what level, you know, what type of involvement. Do you want to share your story? Do you want to actually volunteer? Do you want to donate? I mean, there's lots of different ways people can be involved in this. It's important, you know. One other thing I'd like to share with you that I've been so excited about is that when we first started this so it's a couple years different age brackets and gender that believe that access to contraceptives is very important, right?

Speaker 1:

I'm like thinking to myself. It was only that Because I'm thinking like in the world, like if you just said in my neighborhood how many people have used birth control For whatever reason, it's got to be more than 65% For sure. It just depended on the question.

Speaker 2:

It was overwhelming. We even got close on the question. It was overwhelming. We even got close to the 80s with some things.

Speaker 1:

I guess my view of the. I guess I uniquely was able to see 45,000 people in the ER.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and so intimately I was able to live really close to this issue For sure.

Speaker 1:

Like every part of this issue happens real time in an emergency room. It just does. Whether it's contraception, emergency contraception, plan B, morning after pill, whatever you want to call it. Whether it is people that have had abortions that have gone bad and they end up in the ER For sure. Whether it's people that have Youions that have gone bad and they end up in the ER For sure.

Speaker 2:

Whether it's people that have You've seen the full spectrum.

Speaker 1:

I've seen the whole thing from top. And then ectopic pregnancies, the issues right now of you've got a non-viable pregnancy and what does that mean? In the current law and so on. So very, very involved. But when it comes to just contraception, it's like the standard question with every single person you meet, which is what are you using?

Speaker 2:

Right Agreed, and that's the other thing. That's beautiful about this network is that you know the reason for the varied options is because everyone's chemical makeup and needs vary right. And so to be able to have that choice is really exciting that science has it's women's health.

Speaker 1:

It is For hell's sakes.

Speaker 2:

It is, and what works well for one might not somebody else, and sometimes there's trial and error.

Speaker 1:

Which is always interesting to me, some of these issues where we're all about personal choice and personal freedoms and Except this, except for this.

Speaker 2:

Yep, oh, trust me, I've said the same thing. I'm like what?

Speaker 1:

Don't tell me I need a vaccine, right, but I'm going to tell you what you can and can't do for your own contraception. Anyway, Right. Well, bless you for being involved in this. This is awesome. Thank you Another great thing you're involved in, Kelly, and thanks for your service. You've got a servant's heart from—you've always been this way.

Speaker 2:

Thanks to my parents. Really, yeah, I was raised around the philosophy that you know, see a need, feel a need. In fact, even in our own home, we couldn't complain about our curfew or about, you know, our chores or anything, unless we brought a solution. Now, did they listen to our solutions?

Speaker 1:

No, usually not you, or about our chores or anything unless we brought a solution Now.

Speaker 2:

Did they listen to our solutions? No, usually not, but that was just the rule, I mean, and even my dad in conversations when people would be running their mouth about their elected official or whatever. His first question was?

Speaker 1:

did you vote yeah?

Speaker 2:

And if you said no, he said we're done talking because you didn't do what you could have done when it mattered.

Speaker 1:

What did he do for work?

Speaker 2:

He was a dentist. Ironically, he was a dentist that then bought a dairy farm because he wanted to teach his kids how to work. I was 13 when we moved to a small town in McCammon on a dairy farm. It had about 365 acres and I was like we're going where to do what, Right? I?

Speaker 1:

love that.

Speaker 2:

But it was the very best thing in the world for me because it did. It taught me how to work and there were a lot of really valuable life lessons in that, which is what he wanted. So he'd drive 30 miles into his dental practice and then come home and help Pete, and he'd milk the cows twice a day. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Pete, some of those old school dairies you talked to people that grew up with, like a true farm where you had a dairy and some. I mean you had to feed them so you're doing hay You're tied to it, you're tied to it and man.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it was. Yeah, I learned a lot, in fact. There was a really funny story. One time, especially in the winter when it was cold, my older brother and I would pray that the you know that the generator, the power would go out and the generator wouldn't work. And it did. There was one day, I remember, and we came walking back into the mudroom and laid down on the couch and taking off, and dad comes out. He says what are you guys doing? I told him what had happened. He says you better pray that I get the generator working, because otherwise you're milking a hundred and some odd cows number of cows by hand. And we're like, oh please.

Speaker 1:

Our prayers changed. Now, as a modern grandma, right, think about this. Think about the work that they had to commit to to teach the lesson of work, right? Yes, I don't know that I can do that now.

Speaker 2:

You do it all the time, tommy, you do I don't know that I could. I don't know you are always into new things and doing stuff.

Speaker 1:

I know I love new things, but like saying, hey, let's go have a 150-cow dairy.

Speaker 2:

And horses and pigs and chickens. We had all this stuff Moving pipe Just so I could teach you how to work. I know and it did.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I get tired thinking about that.

Speaker 2:

We have a farm and we do some stuff but it's just so much work, but it's part of our heritage right.

Speaker 1:

It work, it's part of our heritage right. I mean, that's what makes.

Speaker 2:

That's what builds the character right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's why I have the work ethic.

Speaker 2:

I have and the servant heart Are your folks still?

Speaker 1:

around. What's that? Are they still?

Speaker 2:

around. They're not. I lost them both during the campaign. I lost my dad. I had announced April 10th of 2017 that I was going to run and he was gone by the end of that month, the 27th, and then my mom passed on March, 11 months later. Oh, my word, I'm sorry, it was a tough time.

Speaker 1:

How many years were they married?

Speaker 2:

At that point over 50.

Speaker 1:

Let me think 50.

Speaker 2:

Let's see, they were married that happens a lot in law.

Speaker 1:

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2:

It's just, I think, that once one goes and and they were young though they were, only they were both a month shy of their, or a couple months shy of their 73rd. Oh, you're kidding me? No, cancer took both of them. My dad had a brain tumor that we knew about for eight years, and so we were blessed to have him for longer than we thought. And then mom, pancreatic cancer took her.

Speaker 1:

Oof, not long after dad, pancreatic cancer. It was awful. Yeah, it's so fast.

Speaker 2:

And it's mean.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

It hurts so bad. That was hard to watch. In fact, you were so kind during the I don't know if you remember this, but it's something I will never forget but you pulled me aside at an event one time and said, because you knew about what was happening with my mom, and you said if you ever need anything, even a mode of transportation, to get you down to Southeast Idaho quickly if something turns, on you, I remember that I will never forget it and I want to thank you for it.

Speaker 1:

You're awesome, ditto, you're the best. There's a. You know, we go through these experiences and I know, during those experiences, like because we were in it together, you're like what the heck right? But I think you develop bonds with people that are really cool. They, they're awesome and and I've, I've really enjoyed watching you lead your reputation at the association of cities is they needed a leader like you during a time like now. Thank you.

Speaker 2:

It's not getting easier, but they got the right person to thanks, it's so, I get to work with some of the best people. Well, I love them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and you got a good team over there. You have Lance over there now.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I hope he stays. He's such a great man.

Speaker 1:

He's had another baby right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Cutest little girl. Yeah, he's got a little boy and a little girl and such a. I love his wife. She's a sweetheart too.

Speaker 1:

Kelly, thank you. If there's ever anything we can do, we'll spread the word.

Speaker 2:

Please do.

Speaker 1:

And thanks for all you do.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for having me on. I know that it took a little bit of a different turn than what we had expected, but I always enjoy visiting with you and ISIN is such an important project and I hope more people will get involved. It's an important topic, Thanks.

Speaker 1:

Thanks everybody.