Ever Onward Podcast

Education in Idaho in 2026 with Debbie Critchfield | Ever Onward - Ep. 98

• Ahlquist. • Season 1 • Episode 98

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A one-room school with three third graders. A teacher living in an RV to reach them through winter. A powerhouse high school on the other side of the state. That’s Idaho’s daily reality—and the backdrop for a quiet surge in K-12 results that’s changing how students read, train, and launch into work.

We sit down with Superintendent Debbie Critchfield to unpack the moves behind the momentum. She explains how returning to the science of reading—putting phonics, aligned curriculum, and real coaching at the center—turned “back to basics” into real gains, including a sharp rise in K-3 reading proficiency. We dig into why third grade is a decisive milestone, how smaller early-grade classes and better assessment practice support growth, and what it takes for leaders to build the conditions teachers need to thrive without shouldering the blame for every external factor.

The conversation then shifts to career technical education and the dignity of skilled work. Debbie walks through Launch and the Idaho Career Ready Students grant, which have brought welding, diesel, construction, health occupations, cybersecurity, forestry, machining, and more to life across the state—programs tied directly to local industry needs. We explore why Idaho ranks at the top for CTE participation and return on investment, and how these pathways keep students rooted in their communities with options that actually pay.

We also take on the hard stuff: the housing crunch that drives a teacher distribution problem, not a teacher shortage; the politics and potential of consolidation and shared services; and what it looks like to scale excellence by matchmaking similar districts to replicate proven strategies. Through it all, we keep the focus where it belongs—on the teachers who change lives and the students who deserve a system designed for their success.

If this conversation challenged a myth or sparked an idea, share it with a friend, subscribe for more candid education deep-dives, and leave a quick review to help others find the show.

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SPEAKER_01:

Today on the Ever Onward Podcast, we have Debbie Critchfield. She is the superintendent of public education in Idaho. Debbie is a dear friend. She comes from Oakley, Idaho, fourth generation Idahoan, four kids, was on the state board of education and now has been our state uh superintendent of public instruction. She is unbelievable. She's doing some amazing things in Idaho, and the results are showing. We are on track to have record numbers in several areas of public education. Um really happy to have her on and get an update from her on what's next in public education in Idaho. This is gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

One of my favorite people in Idaho.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, that's so nice. Thank you. Just how I asked you to say it.

SPEAKER_01:

You're killing it, Debbie.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, we're working hard. I always say I don't want anybody to outwork me.

SPEAKER_01:

That's never gonna happen, but my goodness, it's been um it's been fun to watch you do it because I mean you're just uh uh education. Like it's just a it's a big thing. It's we spend a lot of money on it.

SPEAKER_00:

Um and it's also this sounds cheesy, but it really is about the future. I mean, the the classrooms, our kids, they're our future neighbors, business leaders, mayors, community support.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's complicated.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we and we gotta do it right.

SPEAKER_01:

We gotta do it right. It's hard. So I can't wait to get get into this with you and um and understand what great things. But before uh a lot of people listening may not know you as well as I do. So Debbie Critchfield, our uh state's uh superintendent of public education. Um, Oakley, Idaho, four kids, lifetime of service in education.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I'm not a certified teacher. Um, and so I come at it from a different perspective. Parents that had children going to school, and I wanted to be a part of supporting the classroom and the teachers, and from that uh got really interested in policy and decision making and local school board to state board of education.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and and talk a little bit. Well, it's it's interesting. Oakley, Idaho, uh, you know, is just an amazing place. I mean, right now, in our of our constitutional officers in the state, you and um uh Lieutenant Governor Bedke are from there. But Oakley's got this rich history of lots of things, and it's kind of cool. It's a great place, but very small town feel. Very you know, we talk about um one of the things we'll get into today is education's different around Idaho. I mean, I I didn't appreciate that at all until I ran for governor. I just didn't. I mean, you grow up and you know what you know, and you kind of just see what you see, and then all of a sudden you go and visit all these little towns and and look how public education has to be delivered across the state. And it's it's got its own challenges. So I think it's also refreshing that you come from a rural perspective because I think you have to have solutions in a state like this that that that meet all needs, and I don't think people appreciate the complexity of that.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you. Uh, that is a part of the position that I I think we need to talk about more. So here's just some numbers to support what you're saying. 60% of the student population of Idaho live in the Treasure Valley between West Ada and Boise. But 70% of our schools are rural schools. And and finding that sweet spot of what are those foundational things that we we expect that everybody should have that aren't contingent upon a zip code are really important. And then as you look at policy and other laws, it's gonna play out a little bit differently because of access to resources and and just community expectations. Last year I was I take tours around the state to go to the schools, and there's a one-room schoolhouse in Lohman. And uh the last year they had three students in the school. One of them has to take a snowmobile in the winter to get there. They all happen to be third graders, and the day that I went, two of them were absent. And so the teacher and I had a great little conversation, and she lived in a, and I don't know if she still does this year, but in an RV on the playground, just right there at the school. And so we we talked about how she does what she does. And then you contrast that with coming back into West Data or Boise as an as an example and and going uh to Mountain View High School, largest high school in the state. And how do we do this in a way that kids get what they need and parents have what they expect?

SPEAKER_01:

And I think that you're hitting the nail on the head is like funding formulas. Um just different ways that policy settles out affects everyone, and that's where the that's where the challenges come because and I and I remember um I remember uh so I met with I can't remember the exact number, but it's 80-something uh uh districts uh with their superintendents. Pretty good. And it was good, and I remember just sitting there listening, because I had kind of my standard questions I would ask. And in in one day, sometimes you would go from a large district, medium to a small district, and thinking to myself, oh my goodness, it's almost like it's almost like watching uh challenges or a train wreck from three different perspectives because they all had their own challenges, but but but how do you come up with solutions that make that work? That's why I think it's so incredible that you've done what you've done with your history of being on the state board and then now our state uh superintendent um of instruction, the results are incredible, Debbie. I mean, a lot of them. I'm so proud of that. I think a lot of the things that um it was one of my passions, one of my reasons why I ran is I thought, oh, K-12 higher ed, how do we do things? How do we how do we scale things? How do we grow? How do we make things make a difference in the world? Uh so I really dug into it and I've watched you do a wonderful job. So talk about some of the things you've done.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, the theme that I had getting into this uh really is two things. One, getting back to basics. We had over time, and not just Idaho, but nationally, we had gotten away from some of those fundamental uh effective learning strategies. And I'll I'll call out phonics as an example. For reasons we don't want to get into today. Nationally, we got away from teaching our teachers how to teach phonics. And we know that phonics is the most effective way to teach learners, even for those who uh show characteristics of dyslexia or other uh learning uh issues. And and so I I've been talking a lot about the science of reading, pardon me, and that encompasses phonics. There's more to it, but it's just kind of the easy way to say that. All right, well, if if we're gonna improve our reading scores, what do we need to do? Because if it were just a book, I'd say the state of Idaho, let's buy everybody this book. But it's many things. It's it is the books that our students are are are using, it's how our teachers are prepared. So I've really taken a comprehensive look, again, kind of maybe overusing phonics or reading. I've gone to the college of colleges of education and said, are you teaching our teachers how to do this? And then how are we supporting them with professional development while we're there? Local boards, are you making uh decisions, informed decisions around the curriculum that you're buying? Are you structuring your day? So it's all of these pieces. And now we've layered in coaching uh for our teachers that are already in class that maybe didn't get the instruction because they've been out of college for a long time. And so we've kind of built this support system over the last couple of years. And this past spring, when our students were testing, that's when we're saying, okay, all those seeds that we were planting, all that work that we were doing, uh, we've got 70% uh, well, I think it's 71% proficiency in reading for K3. And yes, we've got room to grow, but we've gone up with kindergarten alone, we went up 13% in a year. Statewide, we went up 11%. So these things work.

SPEAKER_01:

Can you talk a little bit about why that's so important? So all of the national studies and data you read on life, just life, they they go back to that K3 reading proficiency as the thing that if you can get a kid reading by third grade, by third grade, it's this like milestone thing that's really significant in the education world and in society. That it that's that's a critical thing. So people have talked about it for a long time. The wonderful thing is we're heading in the right direction. We are. And that is not like a gradual slope, it was is dramatic and getting it.

SPEAKER_00:

It really has. We've been uh just growing, and uh as you've pointed out, third grade is that benchmark year. The the difference is we're learning how to read up to third grade, and then fourth grade and beyond, we're using reading to learn. Yes. And there's no second prize for adults or anyone that doesn't know how to read. I would not care if if nothing else was learned through the whole school experience, we got to make sure kids can read. Yeah. And all the things that we do, lowering class sizes, that actually has an impact. That's why you'll see K3 around the state. They try to keep those class sizes as small as they can, not five kids, but they they don't typically want over 20 so that teachers can go in and have that instruction. And a lot of what we do with our teachers is helping them know what to do with assessments. So we test the kids, and then a teacher will look and say, uh, our kids aren't and the kids in my class aren't doing so well with some part of learning. It's the now what do I do with it? So we look at the assessment, and then we want them to be able to make decisions on how to adjust so that they can get that. Those those first critical years are important. Which is not easy. No, because you got 25.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, I think one of the other appreciations I got was um, and it was like a and and I knew this from my own kids, right? So we have two biological kids, we have two adopted kids, kind of the split family. Adopted kids had significant learning disabilities. Um, and uh so they were on IEPs, and and so I had I had a lot of knowledge as a parent who has raised children of how this kind of thing works, but until I actually got out and started talking to people that are dealing with the challenges of in that room of those 25 kids, you know, you have them for a few hours a day, and then you have these breaks, and you're the one responsible for getting them proficient, but then they all go home to different houses, different backgrounds, different, maybe their uh English is a second language at home. Maybe you know, you look at their social situations and the stability there, you look at the support they're getting from their parents or grandparents, and all of that's different. Yet you have these teachers that have to almost come up with an individual plan. That's exactly right. One of their kids and and have to have the knowledge and training. And by the way, that's hard. It's it I I love our teachers. One of the things I walked away with is going home.

SPEAKER_00:

They're hard jobs. Yes. They are. And then you add to the mix um other social pressures, uh, adolescence, puberty, hormones, all of those things. Let me let me share with you uh some things that they sound negative, but it's not intended to set a stage that is um negative, but it's the reality of where we are with kids and families today. Most of I really don't want to say most, more and more kindergarten students are coming to school that have never held a pencil, that don't know how to write their name, that don't recognize colors, that don't know letters, but they're very good at swiping. And so I hear from kindergarten teachers all over the state who are now starting at not at the level that it used to be. There was an expectation that yes, when I'm sending my kid to school, I'm gonna have helped them learn some of those things, or I will have put them in preschool, or something that will have given them a little bit of exposure, or they know how to stand in a line, or they know how to take a turn. We had now have a kindergarten class this year that is our our COVID, we're calling them COVID babies, uh, that that has been a completely different five-year experience for them coming into a classroom. And and so we're starting from a different place. Now, uh the CDC a year or so ago actually reduced the um the requirements or the benchmarks for certain age developments. Uh it used to be that you know, at certain ages, this these were the expectations. Well, the federal government is now has reduced those. And I uh that's again a different story, but we just there there's a different kid coming into the classroom and different expectations of parents, and you you throw all that together and then we say, make them read.

SPEAKER_01:

I can't imagine anything more challenging.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's but also we know our teachers have a real heart for this, and that's why they got into it. There is a science that goes into teaching. We know what those strategies are. It's a recipe, it's not a secret, and we want to get that everywhere. But there's also the art of teaching and the heart of teaching.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and and talk a little bit about um I'm gonna jump all over today with you just because like I I've wanted to hear you uh go into some of these things, but it's gotta be incredibly discouraging and disheartening if you're the teacher. And sometimes when we talk about education and the challenges we have with education, having that finger feel like it's being pointed at me, where you have these passionate, compassionate, wonderful people that go into this career because they want to teach. Like they they're just some of the best humans on the planet, right? And then somehow when we talk about these challenges, they're the bad guys, and I just it would just gut me. I just like, oh my word, no, that's not the case. That's you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh so talk a little bit about that, about how wonderful the teachers are and well, the value uh of teaching, the most important component of a classroom is the teacher, period. And and having an effective, prepared teacher with the right tools and strategies is a game changer for every kid. Yes, every kid can grow, every kid can do better than than when they started. So thinking back to COVID, there was a time, if you recall, when we shut down and uh we weren't sure what was going on. Okay, we're gonna pivot to virtual, some were still in. But parents had more of an influence and had more of a responsibility for the education. And for about a month or so, teachers were the heroes. If you remember that, teachers were the heroes. And then we had the shift where then, wait a minute, this is what you're teaching our kid, or this or that. We had an interesting shift where parents began to doubt some of the instruction or maybe some of the books, which that's its own thing. But somehow, in in talking about the policies or what the decisions at a high level had been, we then kind of victimized, well, not even victimized, but villainized is the word, teachers, that they were bad guys, that they're trying to indoctrinate our kids. And and if you talk to a teacher who's in a like a first grade class, they're gonna say, indoctrinate, I could barely get them to sit down and write their name. We're not spending too much time indoctrinating. Now I get that, you know, as you go through, you get more mature kids and different conversations. But, you know, for the most part, that's not why your teachers got into it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I love that. Hey, um, jump into one more thing. So you you've said a few things today that I I love, and and one of the challenges, I read a book that was called The Answers in the Room, and it stuck uh stuck in me because it it talked about how hard it is to scale in education. But usually within a school, there's one room that was excelling, or within a district, there was one school that was excelling, or within a state, there's different, you know, there are different answers that are really working, but how do you take those things and scale them? So what is most interesting? We're not? We are. We are you are so one of the most interesting things about your success is how have you been able to scale the successes across the state?

SPEAKER_00:

So exactly what you're talking about. We go and we look at high-performing uh districts, high performing classrooms, and we and we look and say, okay, here are the elements. These are not mysteries, these are known recipes, and then we matchmake to districts or charters that look like each other. To our very first point, the demographics, we are geographically spread out, but we are also demographically diverse in the state. And and so uh looking at economic factors, uh the experience of a teacher, there's there's other variables that we may not be able to control, but there are some things we absolutely know work. So when we see a district that is struggling with reading as an example, and someone that has a similar makeup to them, and and we can look at that through data, then we say, we're gonna match make you two, because that this is what they've put into place. And then we remove the excuse, well, they have more money than we do. No, they do not. Or they have better teachers or more experienced teachers. No, they do not. You look very much alike, even though you're different parts of the state, you can do the very same things.

SPEAKER_01:

So you control the controllables and try to match it so that you're trying to it's beautiful, that's beautiful. Because I think that was the the bottom line of the book is if you could ever figure out how to scale success within cohorts, you're going to get there.

SPEAKER_00:

And we're seeing it. And as an example, New Meadows last year, uh their their reading growth, they they're the winners of the most growth in a school year for their elementary kids for reading, they grew 34%. Wow. Well, then people say, Well, what are they doing? They're doing the things that we have said. Here's what works. And you have a leader who gets behind it. That's the other part of this conversation that we didn't spend a lot of time talking about previously. We put all of the responsibility for all of the change, all of the decision making on the teacher. So obviously, as a businessman, you know what the levels are. You are not going to hold the person who is laying the brick accountable for the quality of the brick that comes in or the conditions around which he does that. And so we're saying, look, leaders, building administrators, school board members, superintendents, you need to own this. You can't go to the teachers and say, okay, go go do it. What have you provided in the conditions so that they can be successful?

SPEAKER_01:

It's got to be refreshing for the teachers to hear that and see that and watch that happen.

SPEAKER_00:

I hope so. I got a I got a card from a teacher that I do not know. And I get a lot of mail. It's um, you know, people like to tell me things, which is great. Um, you know, sometimes they like something I do, sometimes they don't. Anyhow, this this teacher that I did not know from Pocatello at an elementary sent me a thank you card in the mail saying, Thank you for implementing this certain coaching that that we've brought in. She said, I wished I would have had this 20 years ago as a teacher. This has changed my how I feel about teaching. I feel supported, I feel, you know, that type of thing. And and obviously it made me feel good, but I I know from stories of teachers talking to me, what we're doing now is changing the culture of teaching.

SPEAKER_01:

Love it. Love it. Um, if I had to, and we didn't do any prep before this, but if I had to ask you some of the biggest myths. So for our listeners that are out there wanting to learn from from you, um, what are what are some of the myths that still exist out there about public education, education in the state of Idaho?

SPEAKER_00:

That we're failing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you know where I think that came from? The one the one stat statistic that you always heard were we're 49th or 50th out of 50 in in funding.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

But I think that that um one it's was super self-defeating always because it was always you'd read the fine print, it was in funding of kids. Right. Right? It was never that bad anyway. But if you look at where what the value of our education is, number one.

SPEAKER_00:

We were ranked number one for the return on investment.

SPEAKER_01:

So explain that better than I am.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, essentially, it is for the money that we put into it and the results that we're getting, there's no better value across the country. So we weren't rated number one on that. The other thing where we start to go up is if you look at a uh education as a percentage of our total budget. That's the other statistic. So we say, oh, we're 48th in funding per student. But if you look at us as a percentage of our overall budget, we zing right up that line.

SPEAKER_01:

That's critical too. That's really critical. So we're comparing ourselves to states that that spend double, triple the amount per student per kid. And so it looked like don't get the results. So it's like then if you looked at their percentage of investment in education, it was were higher than that. Yes. So based on a based on a it's just math, it was never, but I think those negative connotations to education and how we're doing stuck.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, and it's a narrative that creates doubt and people start to lose confidence. Now, what I found is if someone talks to me about that in a community, they believe it's out there somewhere because they love their local school. Yeah. I I hear that, like, oh, education, there are so many things wrong with education, but not at my school. And so I say, but in Idaho, now I would agree that there are issues that I am glad we don't have to deal with in our state that I talk to other state chiefs and I think, oh man, am I glad I don't have that problem. Yeah. We have we have some of our issues, but if you're only getting your news about Idaho from a national source or you're reading online blogs about what's happening in other states, you don't understand what's happening in our own state.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So let me add a couple other statistics while you're while you're thinking. Our graduation rate is the highest it has been in 10 years.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

We were just rated number one in the country for uh students that are involved in career technical education and are getting a dual credit for that. Number one, and I want to talk about our our preparation piece, career tech, but we're number one in the country for that, number one for the return on investment. Um we are among eight states in the country that have more than 50% of our students taking a career tech class. We have 72% of Idaho high school students are involved in some sort of vocational career technical training. So we're in the top eight nationally for that.

SPEAKER_01:

I think that's been a grand slam. It's one of our passions. So we started a nonprofit five years ago, Teens to Trades. Um we're now five years in, and and we have watched really cool things happen. Our latest initiative we started last year is called Tools for Teens. So we have a$500 scholarship that anyone can apply for. Oh, nice. And it gives you$500 at DB stores around the valley. We partnered with Mark Schmidt, uh the COVID.

SPEAKER_00:

We'll promote that when you're ready.

SPEAKER_01:

So we're we're ready. It's it's it's live. But I'm getting to the point because I'm just got goosebumps right now. We we we launched it a couple of months ago, and we've already had our first about 150 applications for this grant. That's awesome. And in partnership with DeWalt Tools, they actually get more than the$500 because of the deep discounts DeWalt gave. So you can have a student going into, and we we've stuck, we've stuck with welding, HVAC, plumbing, and electrical. We've kind of narrowed it there. But but um Alex has been calling all these kids because they have to fill out a little essay. They have to they have to apply, they have to do an essay, what they want to do with their life. She keeps coming in my office and going, Oh, you just got to hear this story. And there's these stories. So so my point is it's real. It it kind of it kind of fits a little bit with our heritage too, because I think we're kind of a blue-collar farming, ranching, get it done. And I think the last time we had an initiative, which was this go on thing, yeah, I think it was self-defeating for families in Idaho because they're like, go on to what?

SPEAKER_00:

And the messaging, it was the right idea.

SPEAKER_01:

It was the right idea, but the messaging was it just was yeah, and this time you guys nailed it. I think launch is nailed it, I think CTE is nailed it. I think, I think it's just it's just it's something you should be very proud of because it's not easy to brand and message something that then gets into the hearts and minds of the families of Idaho and makes a difference, and it's happening.

SPEAKER_00:

So I think in in understanding where Idahoans come at this uh particular part of education, I think it's rooted in the the dignity of hard work. I I think that's where we come from. And I think that that is lost. And I'm not one of these people that is like our generation now, they're all you know going down the tubes. I don't believe that. Now, there are significant significant changes in just how people want to work, our younger people. We got to get them retrained about the dignity and the value of hard work, the value of skills, um, and and the power of having a um, you know, intentional pathway that, you know, this is what we're gonna choose. So I came prepared with some stuff. This is the other part of I'm of my passion about what I do, the preparation piece. We can do a lot of things. We're not educating kids so that they can do well on a test. We are educating kids so they can do something for the rest of their life. I don't care what that thing is, but I want that diploma to mean something. I want them to have confidence that I can now go take advantage of all the opportunities that are available, particularly in their local communities. That was a real issue for me. For many years, um, and I'm gonna say it was probably close to 30 years ago, for sure, 20 years ago, there was a a message or just a vibe in the Cajat County area and I think other places in the state for kids that were growing up in ag communities or or in the trades and some of these things, that if you want to be successful and have a good paying job, you can't live here in the local town. Amen. You can't live here. I'm like, what? And and we're we are changing that. And so we're saying absolutely you can. Don't ever tell a kid they can't be successful. So how are we doing that in the education realm? Two years ago, I went to the legislature. I had this idea um several years ago, and again, one of the things driving me to be in the position was on this whole topic. We want to keep kids where they want to be. Don't tell them they have to leave their community or the state. And I know our governor has said that. We want kids to stay here, and if you've left, come back. So um, Idaho Career Ready Students grant was something that I put together and went to the legislature and got some funding on. The whole idea around it, and I don't want to say shark tank, but it's sort of shark tank-ish. We wanted schools to come to the committee and pitch and present an idea for an expansion of a program or a brand new program or something that increased participation in a program that, were it not for money, kids had a connection to a local business or industry. Now, it had to be sustainable because this was money to get you going. You had to have the teacher, you had to show that the kids wanted to participate, and that there was some sort of attachment to, you know, again, the local business. We had the first year we got$40 million, the second year 20. In those between those two years, we had$140 million worth of requests. Wow. We have been to so many rib ribbon cuttings over in in the last six months because all the shops are coming online, the programs. So I got to get my glasses on because I I want to share this with you because I think it is so important. So in the last two years, we have uh funded through this grant eight ag education programs, and this is all over the state. Five ag food science and processing, two ag mechanics, seven welding and mechanics, four animal science, fourteen automotive technology, three business marketing, six cabinetry and bench carpentry, four construction, three cybersecurity, five diesel mechanic, robotics, drone technology, EMT and firefighting, three engineering technology, an ecology and natural resources, seven forestry programs, seven health occupations, three industrial maintenance and mechanics, law enforcement, two machining and precision machining programs, five plant science, a paralegal, and 18 welding programs. I love it. In two years, I love it. What was the difference? This is where I don't always say everything is fixed in education with money. For career technical education, you have to have the resources. It is more expensive to have a welding program than it is a PE class. Yeah. It makes sense. C and C machines cost more than a basketball. And and the resource part of it, the return that Idaho is going to see of having skilled kids leaving these programs is going to be exponential. And then you add launch into that. So now they are informed decision makers who can now say, oh, hey, I've got a one-year or two-year certificate, or I'm close to the certificate. Now with launch, I can go and do any of these things, or they can go right into the career.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that's and that's beautiful. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we'd first I don't know why, but we we talk about career tech, but this career ready students grant, I believe, has been a game changer and will be a game changer for kids. This is thousands and thousands of kids.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and and we we think a lot about our kids and the future and changing technology and AI and what what it's going to be, but I see it as an opportunity for Idaho kids because we you know we moved to CUNA a few years ago, and I've spent a lot of time really getting involved in that community. It's much more of a it's it's more rural, like that just the people, my neighbors, and and what I tell. Those kids, when I I get to go talk to the high school a couple times a year, um, is you have an advantage. You are going to kick butt out there in life because you know how to work. Yeah. You know how to, you know how to use your hands. You know how to use your own.

SPEAKER_00:

It's part of what we do with this too. It's not just the training.

SPEAKER_01:

And you have you have your you're these you got this Idaho heritage and DNA that you go do stuff, you have the social skills and the soft skills to interact with people, you have a work ethic, and then you have we're helping with this line of sight to jobs that are right here. You don't have to leave.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I love it.

SPEAKER_01:

With the boom in so one of the things, you go back 20 years ago, and every committee I was on, we talked about how do we get more jobs, how do we get higher pay jobs? All our kids are leaving, how do we keep our Idaho kids here? It's all anyone talked about. That has been uh it's been one of the secret successes that's happened here. No one talks about that anymore because you can keep your kids here, but now it's just how do we have great state leaders, government leaders that help us with programs that allow our kids to have the line of sight to jobs that are here and make those connections. That's really what it is. Oh, and it's and we're talking, we're talking a lot of K-12, we're talking a lot of CT, but it's the same for higher ed.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, you start going to higher ed, it's like, what are the jobs in our state that are desperate for the currency now for business is people. And how do we connect those people, our kids, to our jobs, whether it be in development or or healthcare or or the trades, but but how do you keep them here? And and it builds stronger families, it builds generations of families. We have problems like housing now. We have we have we have all our other things that we talk about now.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely, actually, I think is probably the number one problem in Idaho. I always tell people education is not a problem in Idaho. We're getting that job done. The number one problem really is affordable housing. And it touches into teachers. There is not a um well, even here in the Magic Valley, or not the Magic Valley, the Treasure Valley, you get outside of the Treasure Valley and one of their teacher shortage problems is related and attached to the housing issues that they have. There are there, first of all, there's not the inventory, and if there is the inventory, they can't the teachers can't afford to live there. So that that's another so I absolutely care about that conversation because it is impacting how we get and where we get teachers around the state.

SPEAKER_01:

Can you I don't know the answer to this? Can you talk about current recruiting and retaining of the other?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm going to tell you, and this is different than what you hear. Idaho really does not have a teacher shortage problem. We have a teacher distribution problem. So, um, and housing is a part of that. But let me give you a statistic. So on average, I'm going to use BSU as as my point of reference. They graduate around three, 300-ish students in the College of Education every year. Of that number, 90% of those that graduate stay right, oh, excuse me, 90% go right into uh the teaching profession. And then of that number, 90%.

SPEAKER_01:

What percent of the 90 stay in Idaho?

SPEAKER_00:

90 percent, not even Idaho, 90 percent of those that go in from BSU stay in the treasure valley.

SPEAKER_01:

This is exactly why it's so important to have they're not going out with higher ed and and all of these things so intertwined with our community and our needs.

SPEAKER_00:

We have to do and we have to strengthen um the I guess the pipelines within our regions where we have the colleges. And I know we've got a lot of opportunities for people to come into teaching that didn't go through a traditional route, but the bulk of our teachers really are going through traditional pathways and and that's great, but we need to get them out into rural areas. So you go talk to, and and in this case, I'm not even talking about like Stanley, although you know that's an issue. Some of the places where we can't find the where they can't get teacher housing is Grangeville. Now, yeah, that's rural, but Grangeville is a decent sized little town, you know, right in in north central Idaho. And our our school leaders are having to turn a little bit into landlords. If um uh a manufactured home becomes available, districts are looking to see how they can purchase homes that are around that they they can afford so that they can make that a part of the package. Otherwise, they can't get the teachers to move there because they they can't afford to pay for the housing. In uh Cascade, I was there a couple weeks ago, not Cascade, um McCall. I was there a couple weeks ago talking to their superintendent. And a couple of years ago, they built uh some some housing, affordable housing, uh kind of duplex type things, and they offer that as a package where they can get a teacher into the community and kind of get them in a financial position where after a year or two they say, you can only stay here for a couple years, and then we got to move you out so we can get new people in. It and it's not just the, you know, somebody might say, Well, of course that's McCall. That is not just McCall. It is literally anywhere. You go up to Sand Point, Lake Ponderé, St. Mary's. I was in St. Mary's a week ago. They're telling me the exact same thing. That the price of homes has exploded at such a rate everywhere that you can't, and not just teachers, but frankly, Idahoans cannot afford to live in their communities anymore.

SPEAKER_01:

It's the number one issue right now.

SPEAKER_00:

I I absolutely believe it's number one. And I love that people want to talk about, you know, education and all the things that we need to do. Great, let's keep talking about that. But it in my view, affordable housing is really the issue of the day, and it does get into teachers.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and it that that just is uh, you know, it's a hard, it's a hard problem to solve because of one um cost of goods, right? Uh two by four costs more than it did before. Regulation, despite what everyone says. I I get so tired of hearing people talk about, hey, we need housing, and then you go through any of these jurisdictions right now to get anything done, and it's they are so it just they they can't help themselves. Uh we when we need less regulation and more encouragement or incentives to get more housing out, it's it's it's the exact opposite. And then and then the the real death, the the the nail in the coffin for this whole discussion is now you go, okay, let's go get government subsidies for housing. As soon as you bring government subsidies into the free market, it just drives prices up, not down. And so I don't I I mean I just don't think people understand free markets.

SPEAKER_00:

And and and what that housing thread does to the economy of every aspect of a local town. So I had a conversation um uh recently with a a developer in this area talking about how how do we blend the public and private where it doesn't become another problem. Like we don't want to create 10 new problems because we were trying to solve one problem. How do we get around the table uh to address this? And and as we look at that affordable housing issue, yeah, it does help teachers, but it also has other ripple effects that that are gonna have positive impacts for all of us.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I don't know what all the answers are, but I'm willing to be at the table and talk about it from the perspective of we got to get teachers out around the state, and we want teachers to stay here.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, gosh, there's so many things going with you. I um I I'm gonna tell you, I think I told you a little bit of this, but I I I uh, you know, you get into your world like just doing your thing, and I haven't been involved as much in education issues, but I got invited over to Grace, Idaho a two weeks ago. Nice three weeks ago.

SPEAKER_00:

Grace Grizzlies, I think they're the grizzlies. Grace Grizzlies. Potato Screen.

SPEAKER_01:

And it was an interesting, I spent two hours, I drove over and back, and um the topic was how do we find a way to work with three different districts over there that are right next to each other? They need a new high school, right? Then why I was invited, is there any public-private partnerships that can make these things work? So it was a really great idea. Over the two hours, though, it I sat there thinking, oh my goodness, there's just so many things you don't think of in these small communities, because you had all three of the of the districts there represented with their superintendents, you had all their individual community needs, um, you had the financial strains and struggles, you had the numbers of students, the you just had all these different things going on. Um, but one I'm getting to the point, one of the questions I had is um at what point in Idaho, or any state for that matter, uh, because one of the things when I ran for governor is that you we we have way too many school districts. We have way too I mean, we have way too many school districts. Because if you look at like if you look at just dollars spent and overhead, and and there's a couple of places in in the state where you can go and literally you were a half a mile or a mile away from the next school district. And and I understand local control, I understand local communities, I understand why it happened. Um that's it's not anyone's fault that it happened that way, first of all. It it was the way it was, and back when you had these little communities, we didn't create it, but we're but we're living it. We're living it, right? And at the end of the two hours over there, I thought, man, it's just gonna have to get worse before people were willing to because the idea of consolidation came up in this meeting, or even not even consolidation of districts, it was only consolidation of resources, and the set everything was going swimmingly. And the second you got to any sharing or consolidation of just resources, Debbie, it's fighting words. Then all of a sudden it was a crap storm like immediately, let alone saying, Why on God's green earth do you have three school districts? Even if you had, even if you had three, you know, you still call them the same thing, right? Why do you have three districts? Can I I know this?

SPEAKER_00:

I just brought up a really tough topic, but no, it it's not it's it's not tough for me in the sense of um understanding the issue. So one of the benefits I think um coming from the the school district that I do in Kazha, I believe we are a model in the state for uh unification consolidation. So Kazha County is one, the entire county is one school district. I love this. So you have uh five very distinct communities that have a school or share it, and we share a tech center. There's still brands. There's one, yes. We still have their brands. We still have the hardest. Oh yeah, Oakley Raft River. I mean, come on. And uh we're in different sports classifications. We have there are very stark differences between uh the five high schools. But to your point, everyone they own their own school. But we all know that we're a part of the whole. And you have representation on a school board that takes in uh attendance zones from each of those communities. So my experience as a school board member was if I'm going to advocate for something for Oakley High School, I'm naturally gonna have to take a look at everyone. I'm not just gonna say, hey, this is what Oakley needs, and I'm gonna walk away from all the other needs. And so we we know we have that feel. And so I I share that message as we travel around. Now, here's some other issues that I think are related to why this is an important problem. It's not not problem, but issue. It's not just the facilities. So we know in Idaho we've got aging facilities. Last year, thankfully, the legislature put one billion dollars towards it, but that was towards maintenance and repair. It doesn't touch anything new, anything like that. And so um, we have aging facilities around the state that clearly is a part of this. The other part is just overall efficiencies within the budget. So if we can find efficiencies through one transportation director or one food service person, one superintendent, there's money to add back into the pot. The other issue that I'm starting to see is um the leadership. Our our pipeline and and pool for superintendents is not as deep as it was. You have people that are retiring, it's a highly political job anymore. They don't want to get into it. Many of our smaller districts, particularly in the north, find themselves in a position where they're hiring from out of state because they can't find anybody local that wants to be there. And so I also think there's there's a leadership component to this conversation that we could go down and say, how do we get some folks around the table uh to talk about piloting being willing to be a leader in their community and stand up and say, hey, there's some places, you know, maybe we could take a look at sharing some efficiencies. And I and I want to be a part of that.

SPEAKER_01:

So if it were in the real world, if it were a business and you were just like, hey, we're gonna like um I just saw yesterday Target just laid off a thousand people at their Minneapolis headquarters, and I was back there a couple weeks ago, so I'm like, whoa. But if it was that way, you would say, okay, the the current realities of the economic situation we're in are going to drive us to make really good decisions. We have within our company, this Cashew County, who has a model that works really, really good, still gives you your ability to feel like your identity. And then on top of it, what I love is you could say, hey, for any of the money you save by doing this, you know, this consolidation of resources, that those dollars can stay with you to help fund some of these things that you need. Seems like it would be a really straightforward decision. I agree. And then all of a sudden you get back into like it's not, it's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so there's a there's a couple of things, um, and and I completely agree with what you've said about incentivizing districts with the financial. It cannot, the message cannot be we want you to consolidate your district so that the state can have more money. They're not gonna do it for that. Now, if there's uh savings to be found that you can now put into your own resources, that I think is something that'll bring people to the table. The the tricky part, legislators will come and talk to me and say, Debbie, we got to do this. Okay, do you want to legislate it? Oh no. Yeah, nobody wants to go legislate it because they don't want to be that person that just said we're gonna, you know, combine all of these communities.

SPEAKER_01:

It's it's it's it's one of those political issues, though, that that no one's behind the scenes, everyone's like, we have got to do something.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. They local board members, as it is comprised right now, they have statutory authority. So unless they do it on their own, I don't have a mechanism to go enforce it. Now, I I I want to be at we want to be at the forefront of the conversation because to your point, with everything going on, first of all, we should always be finding efficiencies, whether the economic outlook is positive or you know, lagging or whatever. We we need to be looking at that. And to say in Idaho that you have 190, I think 190 uh school districts and charters individual, okay, that's you know, that's a high number. Also, the other model, to be honest, I think is West Data. You look at them as, I mean, think of how they have like 30 plus elementary schools. Yeah. Somehow they figured it out, and the high schools have maintained all of their individual identity. And so it can be done. I think it's just changing the mindset about well, changing the mindset that it's okay and you're not gonna lose who you are.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and they're you know, change is hard, right? It's the who moved my cheese thing, right? I mean, it's hard. It's always it's always hard, especially when you have these, you know, decade-long uh this is the way we've done it, things. I think the financial reality, my my my takeaway after two hours was this is not a hard problem to solve.

SPEAKER_00:

No. Well, first of all, I think it's a people issue.

SPEAKER_01:

It's a people issue. The the the building issue, if we standardize the buildings in these places instead of supportive of that and have been for years. That would be like the easiest thing, like no-brainer thing, but until someone has the financial incentives to do something like that. I don't know. That's easy. There's this these extra dollars that could help fund the improvements you need. I think uh there's models within Idaho that are already working. Um anyway.

SPEAKER_00:

Hey, let look I'm gonna sign you up. I'm enlisting you in the effort. Let's talk about it. Because it it is, it does have to be, I think, that public-private, because we will solve some other issues when we um take a look at how we start to combine efforts. Yeah, and it it honestly does not make sense to have so many so close together and and the efficiencies. And even for places that are a little bit further apart, as an example, in I mentioned Grangeville earlier, so that's the Mountain View School District. They actually just recently voted to deconsolidate. So now Kooski and Elk City are gonna become their own district, and Grangeville will be its own district. And and the way they've done that before has been to um, you know, Elk City has been a part of it, and they just the the the principal of the elementary in Kooski would drive out, and it's a beautiful drive along the Clearwater River, but I mean nonetheless, it's a long drive. But somehow they they still manage. But now we've got these two these communities that are now deconsolidating. I'm saying, wait, wait, wait. But I mean, they're allowed to the the law says that they can you know go to a vote in their community. And um, I I think we've got some good things around us to say, let's push our sleeves up and go to work.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's beautiful up there, isn't it? Oh, it's incredible. Elk City.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, it's incredible. That's where we go.

SPEAKER_01:

That's where I go turke turkey high.

SPEAKER_00:

You can see exactly why you know people want to live there.

SPEAKER_01:

That's where I shot my mountain lion. And and in Kooski is like the greatest Chinese restaurant in all of like that area.

SPEAKER_00:

Idaho's been discovered. Idaho's discussion. And it's just you know, we we talk about like I say, we talk about rural Idaho as though it's the nobody's nobody knows about it, and there's four people that live there. Let me tell you, you go anywhere and uh these communities are growing.

SPEAKER_01:

How long have we gone, guys? It's I can't believe how fast it's going. 50? We gotta we haven't even talked about higher education.

SPEAKER_00:

We can do part, we can do another part too.

SPEAKER_01:

Can we?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, there's so many, there's so many good things. And that's this is why the message I'm always inviting people, like please share the message that we're doing a good job in Idaho. And you know, if you if you're worried about something, go talk to the school.

SPEAKER_01:

But but in summary, for people listening, like um there are myths out there, and then there are great things happening around our state. There are just wonderful things happening in education. Um, I would say K-12, technical education, higher ed, everything and wonderful people. Can we close this thing out just talking about our teachers?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, absolutely. I think we forget that our teachers are also parents, they're also community members. Sometimes we have this attitude that our our teachers are sort of the separate element of the community. They are the community, they're voters. And uh they they got into it because they they love to to serve and they love to help kids be successful. And and and one of the things that I want Idaho to be known for, and our teachers are such a critical part of this. I want success to be so embedded in everything that we do in the educational sphere that a kid has to opt out of their future. Yeah, you literally have to opt out of being successful in what you do in Idaho because we are gonna have all of those elements set up in a way supporting the teacher, helping our leaders be connected to good decisions, that a kid has to has to choose to fail because we're gonna make it impossible for you to do that. I love that.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, um I would add to that, um, going through our kids. Um, I don't know that there's anything more meaningful to a family. Like just to your family unit as you go through life, right? You just you have you have your kids and they all they all have their strengths and weaknesses and their ways of approaching the world. I don't think there's anything more meaningful than having a teacher that loves them and cares for them and helps them individually. I for me No, I agree. I mean, I I can sit here and think of all my kids and and the teachers that changed their lives, that dedicated everything to them to make a difference in their life, and and and what a difference it was right when they needed it. I just what a noble profession.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. How many times do teachers get called mom? I mean, you we I hear that from teachers all the time that you know a kid's not paying attention. And I think it's on that level of care, yeah, uh, that the and and protection that our students know uh that their teachers care about them.

SPEAKER_01:

I you know, unless you've had a kid that's had an IEP, I think that's for me, because you go to back to school night and you get to know some of the other teachers, especially when they start having multiple teachers in in uh middle school and high school. But when you sit in that room and you watch every one of them talk about all that they're doing individually for your kid, and then you like walk out to the parking lot and sit there and you're like, holy smokes, this is this is significant. This is really real, you know, it's a wonderful thing that we have. Well, you're the best. I I'll I am your biggest fan. Oh, I thank you for all you do in the state. The positivity's coming up again in a year.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, election cycle coming up.

SPEAKER_01:

And so you have a primary in the spring, and then you'll be re-elected next year.

SPEAKER_00:

I like it. Keep channeling that. You know, there's a lot of uh there's good work to be done, and and and I like serving, talk about serving. I love serving the state. I love the state so much, and and I want to take a turn and I want to do all that I can to put us uh in a in a good place for the future.

SPEAKER_01:

Last qu last thing to just leave for our listeners. Um if they were to go look for data and look for ways to just know what what all the good things that are going on, where do they go?

SPEAKER_00:

The best place probably is the um Idaho uh report card. It's online, it's just Idaho Reports uh.com and it's every school's report card, it's the statewide um look at where we're performing, how we're achieving, and and then uh I think the Department of Ed website, SDE.daho.gov. Great, I think is right. But thank you. Thank you for the support of education. I know that's who you are, so thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you for coming on. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks, everybody.