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Ever Onward Podcast
The Ever Onward Podcast is your go-to business podcast, offering engaging discussions and diverse guests covering everything from business strategies to community issues. Join us at the executive table as we bring together industry leaders, experts, and visionaries for insightful conversations that go beyond the boardroom. Whether you're an entrepreneur or simply curious about business, our podcast provides a well-rounded experience, exploring a variety of topics that shape the business landscape and impact communities. Brought to you by Ahlquist.
Ever Onward Podcast
Why Idaho’s Budget Should Get Your Attention with Lt. Gov Scott Bedke | Ever Onward - Ep. 111
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In this episode of Ever Onward, we sit down with Idaho Lieutenant Governor Scott Bedke for a timely, plain-spoken conversation on why Idaho’s budget situation deserves attention — not just from policymakers, but from everyday citizens.
We dig into the realities behind state budgeting, tax cuts, federal dollars, balanced budget pressures, and how strong growth years can quietly create future constraints. Lt. Gov. Bedke breaks down how legislative decisions are actually made, why uncertainty in revenue forecasting matters, and what happens when government runs out of flexibility. The discussion also explores public trust, long-term decision making, and why governing for the next generation — not the next news cycle — should shape policy.
If you want a behind-the-scenes look at how state government weighs tough tradeoffs, this episode delivers clarity without spin.
Topics include:
- Idaho’s current budget pressures
- Tax cuts vs. long-term obligations
- Federal funding tradeoffs
- Balanced budget discipline
- How the legislative process really works
- Growth, infrastructure, and public priorities
- Leading with a long-term horizon
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Meet Lt. Governor Scott Bedke
SPEAKER_03Today on our Ever Onward podcast, Matt and I will be interviewing um Scott Bedke, our lieutenant governor. Scott is an unbelievable guy. He's from Oakley, Idaho. He's a rancher and a farmer. He has been the lieutenant governor of Idaho since 2023. He served as the Speaker of the House of Representatives from December 5th, 2012 to November 30th, 2022. He is Idaho. I mean, if you look at our lieutenant governor, he understands ranching. He's an expert on water. He's a tremendous guy and a great leader. It's always good to catch up with Scott. We've had him on before, but uh this year we're excited, and Matt and I to just talk to him about the legislative session, the issues facing Idaho uh in this year and in the near future, and really just catch up with one of our great leaders, Scott Bedke. Lieutenant Governor Bedke, in the middle of all you've got going on, thanks for coming spending some time with me and Matt.
SPEAKER_02Well, it's my pleasure. I I look you guys both do great. And now you're here together, and I'm apprehensive on some level. You're always calm with me, so it must be because of this guy.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god. I'm just amazed that there are windows here and that we can like see outside. I'm used to being in a basement or a garage.
SPEAKER_03Let's talk a little. So when we we wanted to be close to Capitol to make sure it was convenient for you. So we're here in the Zions Bank building, A10 Capital. Jerry Dunn's the CEO here. Thank you. It's a beautiful view.
SPEAKER_02It's a little overcast today, but it looks good. And and Tommy, there's open space here.
SPEAKER_03Well, you know what's fun. I was telling the story when we when we did this building, we had the goo goo dolls do the concert on the street, if you remember that. And we were standing at the concert, and I'm like, you know what? Because I'd I'd been helping VRT for so this is the long story. VRT had like$20 million to put a bus station downtown. They wasted$10 million studying different sites, and I was helping them try to find a site. I'm standing up here at the concert, and I'm looking over, I'm like, let's go buy that parking lot. Yeah. So we we finished this, started that, and did this one, and and now we got the new one in the background there. So it's kind of fun to be here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's kind of fun to reminisce a little bit. We're getting old.
SPEAKER_02Well, and Boise's growing. There's no question about that.
SPEAKER_01So may I ask a question? Yeah. Um bringing up VRT. VRT took a lot of heat in uh Nampa a couple years ago because they are, you know, the city of Nampa is trying to figure out what the ROI for for supplying this funds to, you know, I think it was like transit Route 41 or something that went called all the way. Anyway, but there's a big discussion of should we keep this going? One of the caveats was hey man, if you eliminate VRT, you're gonna eliminate a dump truck of federal money that comes into the NAMP area to upgrade things like sidewalks. I come to find out just yesterday in a conversation with somebody about ITD that there are grant organizers within Idaho Department of Transportation that help funnel funds from the federal government into improving our rural infrastructure, specifically sidewalks and things of that nature.
SPEAKER_03I think it's what you just said is way more complicated than that.
SPEAKER_01I'm sure it listen, I'm an idiot. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03But but I do I I this is what I Governor Becky, Lieutenant Governor, I'll let you go. But I think two issues. One, VRT is a transportation boundary with the mandate from the government to provide public transportation, but they don't have a source of income. So that's one. So they go around and kind of have all the communities contribute, and that's been the problem is it's it's hard to contribute funds, especially during a during what we're in now. But second thing is they do provide a gateway to those funds if there's some matching dollars. And you lose that if you don't have it. So that so those caveats.
Federal Dollars, “Perverse Incentives,” And Tradeoffs
SPEAKER_01My my specific question, kind of background, is there's been an anxiety in the at the end of the last legislative session, and and I don't know where it is at this legislation that we legislative session that we should decrease the amount of funds or grants coming from the federal government. But if we did that, we would lose things that most people don't think about, which is funding towards infrastructure, especially within rural Idaho, that doesn't have a tax base to really you know repair this itself. Where do you think the sentiment is with federal dollars?
SPEAKER_02Well, uh, I think it's gonna be similar to last year. I think there's gonna be a red-blooded test, you know, we'll we'll be reminded that. And I I mean, we're the the federal government's a long ways in debt. And there was this outrage for a couple of years, and now there's this, you know, and I don't know, you described a bunch of perverse incentives. We want to do this, so we got to do that. And I I I'm not I'm never comfortable with that, as I am a federal taxpayer as well. And so I I'm you know, and we're all in business, and and in each of our businesses, if we don't balance, I mean we you know, we go under, and I and I'm concerned, you know, and all of the good things aside, and and uh I appreciate the fact that that uh there's a certain members of our of our state that need the ride. I get that. But it costs and who pays and how and all like that always gives me some you know some pause. Uh so I I believe that you'll hear artfully weaved into debate, particularly when the appropriation bills come, and uh, you know, there'll be a there'll be a concern about the amount of federal money that that is there. You know, and it'd be one thing if Idaho didn't take it that that immediately credited or debited, I don't know which side the books were on back at the federal government, it you know, paid something off. But that's never how it works. If Idaho doesn't take it, it goes into the pot and it's instead of divided by 50, it's divided by 49. And everybody thanks Idaho for their you know their help. And uh anyway, I and so when I use the phrase perverse incentives, that's exactly what I meant. That there's there's we're not incentivized to if there's not a hard stop, if we don't budget towards a number, then then it's just whoever has the best, you know, you know, the the latest great idea. And I don't think that's the best way to run the railroad. I don't like their spending my money that way. And anyway, so I'm always mixed on these types of things.
SPEAKER_03Can I follow up on something I know is coming this session, and that's the balanced budget amendment. You know, I'm working on it a little bit with our good friend Todd. Um, you know, I I was tasked to call many legislators over the last two weeks. That was great calling and just seeing where they stood on it. So the whole idea for the listeners is if enough states pass a balanced budget amendment to to put together a single line item agenda constitutional convention, you could then, the states could force the federal government to do a balanced budget amendment. And um no one thinks they'll ever get there. In fact, I've talked to our delegation in D.C. and they're like, hey, if and we're at and uh South Carolina just passed this last week. So I think they're to 29 states now. They need to get to 32. So there are only three states away from forcing this. And everyone thinks as soon as they get close to that 32, it's going to force action out of the federal government to say, hey, last thing we want, even if it's a single item convention, is we just let's go solve this ourselves. It's been shocking to me. I'm getting to a point here, because I've been calling and talking to legislators and saying, hey, where do you stand on this? And I thought I've been very educated on it. But there have been some really great counterpoints. But one of them, in fact, one of the most heated kind of exchanges over about two different phone calls I had with one of the legislators was about, well, we're it we're too far gone anyway. And I'm like, what does that mean? He's like, you look at how many trillions of dollars we're in debt, you're never going to balance the budget. So why, why even pretend like you can force it? And I'm like, man, I I said that may be the case. I don't know, but that certainly doesn't feel right for my kids and my grandkids to be able to say, uh, I think we're too far gone. I had never heard that before. And so what what do you think?
SPEAKER_02I think that that that that that attitude has never solved a problem. And I think that that uh, you know, that's and in fact, it's been around since ASOP wrote the fables. You know, that that uh you know the that the that the grapes are sour, so there's no need for the we just had an ASOP fable uh reference on the podcast, Governor.
SPEAKER_03That's great.
SPEAKER_02Well, I had a mother that read to me.
SPEAKER_03And hey, can we hey? Let's just stop right there. Thank you for coming on. Um I know, I know, but I just you know, you're such a good man and a good friend. I appreciate you and your leadership. But your mom passed away yesterday. And so the fact that she comes up this early in this, uh, condolences and tell us a little bit about her.
A Tribute To Mom And Family Roots
SPEAKER_02Um well, Idaho lost a great citizen. I mean, she was above average, she did more than her share always. She raised us five kids after losing a couple of kids, and and you know, so I was the first one that uh made it through childhood. And uh and so I but I mean she was um a mother, she was airdropped into a ranch situation. She was not raised, you know, she was raised in a more suburban situation in Logan, very comfortable there, uh to say the least, and came out to the ranch. Uh, you know, we're comfortable there too, but in a ranch kind of way. And she airdropped into feeding hay crews on cooking on wood stoves and no electricity, no power. And you know, all of that came along as uh civilization caught up to goose crick. But uh yeah, I lost my mom. She was 93, but I she was I mean, she was a sterling example of everything. Uh piano teacher, we figured up. I first remember her teaching piano lessons in 1965. So she did quit doing that in the last couple, three, three, three years. She was just not patient enough anymore. These kids don't practice. And I mean, she she knew she was sharp and uh but very compassionate, very service-oriented to her family, especially. And uh she has over a hundred, I don't know, we didn't I could count. I got up to 103 and then got interrupted, but I think we're up there, she has direct progeny of 105 plus. And uh, and we're all we are all better for the legacy that she left us, and would that when my great-grandkids are having this conversation can say just half of the good things about me that we could say about my mother. She's my father's been gone for 27 years, so rather than you know, and it was and that was hard, and we all knew that it was hard, but she plowed her efforts back into her family, her grandkids, and uh and they so the sadness is watching the grandkids miss grandma, but uh you know, those of us that know are very happy that she was able to be move on.
SPEAKER_03We had talked about her before, and I know how much you love her. And um, then I called Todd hadn't heard, so I called Todd and he started crying on the phone. He's like, She was the most wonderful, he just went off. He got so emotional on the phone.
SPEAKER_02I'm like, she's uh she's very solid, yeah. Well, and uh and I don't know what else to say other than You're gonna miss her. I'm gonna miss her, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, thanks. Uh you brought her up.
SPEAKER_02Um I referenced Aesop's face. So but uh but uh again, she was a piano player. We sat on her lap as she would play and sing, we would sing songs with her, and then we would uh she would read to us all the time, and uh it was an it was an ordinary thing. There was a lot expected of us scholastically, and we mostly hit those marks and uh and the our behavior, there was a certain standard, and uh and she let you know when you're bumping up against the line, if you crossed it, then there were you know there were consequences, and and uh uh her and my father were a great match, great match, and going back through some of that old stuff. You know, there was a you know, there was a stack of cards that she kept for all the Mother's Days and anniversaries, and I I can't, well we're not going there, but anyway, they were a good match, and uh I'm very blessed to have grown up in their home. And uh and there, but there was a standard of give you know public service, and I believe that I would not be here uh had I had she not pushed, and but it was never, you know, we're it's like we talk, Matt. Uh first it was public land ranching, that's how we feed uh our kids. That's that's how we service our debt, that's what we do, and there's a political element to that, and so you know, standing up for what we do is you know, that's that's what she did. And uh and and so here we are.
SPEAKER_03And I was she pretty proud of you.
Public Trust And Learning The Process
SPEAKER_02Uh she yes, well, yes, she was. I'll bet she was very proud of you. But no, anyway, she I she understood what was going on at the legislature, and she liked uh you know, if I was ever on TV and I was, you know, under no uncertain terms if I was gonna be on KMVT back in the Magic Valley, that I was to let her know, or if I was gonna be on the radio and and that type of thing. And uh she was very proud that way of my you know accomplishments. Um but uh she never, you know, she only came up here like twice. And you know, she had other things to do. And as long as I came home in the week on the weekend, checked in, said hi, or called her on the way home, you know, she was good. But she was here when I was uh you know inaugurated uh and was there on the stand with me and we were going back through some of those pictures, and uh I'd be proud of my son. And I and I think she was as well.
SPEAKER_03That's fantastic. Well, thanks for still doing this. This this seems kind of this is just the legislature and session and stuff, politics.
How Laws Get Made And Why It’s Slow
SPEAKER_02Well, it it is, but as we do legislate, there are families and people back home whose lives we uh you know we touch and we affect by what we do here. And you know, sometimes you get caught up in in all of that. Uh, but the amount of trust that is out there in our citizens, you know, in the body politic that we'll eventually do the right thing, uh, is is quite humbling, frankly. And they they trust us. I can remember a conversation I had when I, you know, I got appointed way back when through the appointment process, and you know how rigorous and you know, and I there was nine very qualified, well, at least eight very qualified people that threw their hat in the ring then. And uh, and I was the last one standing after that. And so I, in the first part of my legislative career, I would call home to that network and kind of check in and walk them through issues. And I did that with this one guy once. And then the second time he said, Yeah, Scott, don't call me. Don't call me again on this. I said, I he said, I'm in a, I'm not in a in a good position. You know way more about this stuff than I do. We trust you to make the judgment calls with a set of facts that you'll know better than we do, or that I do. Well, he used we because he they talked and I'd made a few phone calls. And he said, We trust you, don't call. And if you mess up, we'll unelect you. So uh that that was pretty good advice right there. And so what that did was put the onus on me to make sure I was I knew what I was talking about and that I could go home and defend my vote. And uh, and it's a huge responsibility to be trusted. They being trusted is a big good thing. And so that shaped my uh my legislative career. My mother trusted me to do the right thing as well. Uh, she had interesting, you know, she followed politics nationally and otherwise, and uh she got pretty good pretty good straight answers. Uh, you know, I just don't I don't I don't like the way that man made me feel. I don't like this, or I don't like that, or can you believe that that happened? Or what's this world coming to? Man, I'm glad we live in Oakley, and you know, and then we would then something would happen around. And anyway, she was she was sharp, she took care of her home, she was an excellent cook, she took care of her yard. Still living independently. Uh my my brother and his wife had moved into the home. Okay. Uh, and bless their hearts, because she was still fairly independent, and so that's a hard thing to share a home, you know, and uh bless, you know, my my sister-in-law took the you know, took all the brunt of that. That's that's hard for her, and uh and we the rest of the family owe a huge debt of gratitude to to my brother and his wife, and uh they took care of mom, the way moms need to be taken care of. But she was sharp, but uh sad to watch. It's hard, it but it's hard, hard to watch.
SPEAKER_03It is. I I my mom fell and broke her arm this last week, so I had to drive down. She's still in Salt Lake and went and took her in the hospital for her surgery and spent spent the day in the hospital with her. And then it's just I I sat there when she was sleeping in the bed. And uh I don't know, I just got pretty emotional thinking about my life and what she meant to me and how she sacrificed everything for me and was there for advice and love and would do anything at any moment. And I know she prays for me every day, and my kids, and all I mean, just what she means. She just kind of such the matriarch, and I you know, I for a minute I thought, uh, I just she's getting old. And it just, I don't know. I I was driving, I drove back, and like that means you're getting older. I know. And I called, I called Shannon, and I'm like, oh, she's like, she's like, you don't sound very good. Are you okay? And I'm like, no, I'm really not okay. I'm just sad because it was the first time for me. She's almost 80, and and it was the first time for me. She's had a big drop-off, and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna, you know, I gotta enjoy these days and I'm gonna miss the heck out of her.
SPEAKER_02Well, we take them for granted because there's we think there's gonna be a thousand more days, and then there isn't, and then that's that's hard. And and uh, you know, so and passing by these mileposts or these landmarks are is a hard thing. Yeah. And uh, and we get this, you know, then we start feeling sorry for ourselves, and and uh uh anyway, I I think there's a lot to be learned by watching parents age, and it's part of life, yeah, and it's part of um you know God's plan. And I I get all that, but before it was an academic exercise. Now it's real and it's happened, and and uh so I was very thoughtful with the last few days.
Budgets In A Downshift: Flexibility Vanishes
SPEAKER_03I was just thinking about when you were telling that story. You won't remember this like I remember it, because it's always different when you're on the other side of the table. But uh, it's gotta be. I'm trying to think, it had to be. When when did you when were you put in the speaker? You were there 10 years, and now you've been 2012. So this was probably four, this is probably 10 years ago. And there was some issue going through the legislature, and I was so fired up about it, and I got an appointment with you, and I came over and I busted your office. I sat down and I'm like fired up, and I'll never forget you you stood up and you walked over and you shut your door behind you and you sat down. It's like, I'm gonna tell you how this thing works. And I still remember like just listening to you, the wisdom of like, hey, this is how things go over here. This is how the process is. You need to simmer down.
SPEAKER_02I hope I was polite.
SPEAKER_03You were very you were you were super polite. It was like the elder statesman just like saying, Hey, hey, little guy, let me just tell you how this thing works. But it was so good, Scott. I remember walking out going, man, I just learned a lot. So let's pivot um to uh thank you for that. It was it was awesome. Um, you know, we're uh Matt and I are doing a few interviews today. That'll come out this month. The legislative process is so important. To your point, I mean, you you have these people elected from around the state. And my opinion as I get older and get to know more and more of them, there are so many good people.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_03Great people. No argument. That are just they come here and a lot of them, you know, they're genuine, authentic Idaho people that are representing their folks and what they hold dear to themselves. They come, they get oriented, and then it's so complicated. There's just Matt and Matt.
SPEAKER_02Turns out turns out all the easy stuff's been done.
SPEAKER_03Matt and I did our our thing on Friday that we're going to release as our own as an intro to this, but you start talking about international politics and commerce, national politics and commerce, state politics and commerce, cities and counties, and how all this thing rolls and and and how tax dollars flow and you know the social issues and the you know the pressures that are different every session. Um what what you think's coming and what is coming and what comes. And and somehow, you know what, the this great process, this great republic we have that you have people that go up there and they try to make sense of all this and do the best they can on behalf of Idaho. And that's that's really the process. Now, are there winners and losers each session? Depends on which side of the issues you're on. But people come here really ready to go. I was telling Matt, one of the things that I I want to talk to you about is it always bothered me that there's like 300 new laws every year. Because I'm like, oh, please first do no harm, right? Like do we have do we have to pass 300? Can we do 200 this year? But but then then you look at how how it's made. Talk to us a little bit about just the process, first of all. You've watched it, you've you've been in the middle of it for so long now. And then what are and then and then and then shape into this session what what do you think some of the pressures are?
Revenue Guessing And Tax Cut Aftershocks
SPEAKER_02Well, any law that makes it through the process. I mean, it's a fairly rigorous process, you know, hearing in the house, then we print or hearing the house or the senate, then here, you know, it's it it uh and remember that that that that uh law it was somebody's baby. I mean, that was some, you know, somebody said there needs to be a law, you know, many of the times it's a state agency, but those agencies are connected with the the the workings of state government, and then and this is not work that and something's not working, so they need to you know tweak it, then the only thing that's in the way is the is the statute, or through the m rulemaking process, you know, then the the rule doesn't match up genetically with the law that allowed the rule, you know. So there so a lot of it is is that. Um and and I think it's a I agree with your statement on these people show up with their heart in the right spot. I think that and and that was always hard for me uh to begin with, was you know, the to accept the fact that that person with whom I don't agree or I tend to stereotype or whatever I do is some part of the state's first choice to represent them in this process. And uh, and I think that the process relies on this diversity and this variability from around uh the state so that, and then you go into the process that is slow and cumbersome and whatever. And uh from that we get a set of laws that uh are the product of very thoughtful, you know, people that put this together way back when. So I um you know, I'm kind of a I like things to move quickly, particularly when it's my stuff and and if it's my stuff is dragging, you know, but but that's the thing is if it's the if Matt and Scott have this great idea until that idea grows legs and we let go of that, if it's a Matt and Scott show, you know, we've got to hand that off to the system and uh and see where it goes because is you know, and and and uh you know Mr. Self-Deprecation here uh is you know, we would have you and I would come up with a decent idea, but then we but then we gotta let it go. And uh and and that's the process. And so the the issues facing us this year are uh those are they're budget driven. And uh so we've got to pretty unique, right? Because yeah, the economy is booming.
SPEAKER_03Well, I was I was telling the story the other day. I mean, you you you you you forget there's many people that don't even remember how to spell Great Recession at this point, right? Exactly. There's a few of you that went through that. And then since then, yeah, we had, I mean, I think we had some very hard years that were kind of post-recession where things were kind of, but then it started cooking, and then it was like, oh, how long is this gonna last? And how long is this gonna last? And I we've had a lot of how long is this gonna last years, and then all of a sudden we have really this first challenge. So I think it's pretty new over there to not be having excess or flexibility, and all of a sudden you have no flexibility. So that's probably well.
SPEAKER_02I mean, okay, so here's uh a wise man. I've heard it first at at home in the family situation, turns out that in our family business, but uh this is a mantra that per is pervasive in successful businesses. In because we're all in a business cycle, and it and we and I'm the fourth generation on the family's cattle operation. And so uh we say that it's not gonna be the bad years that put us out of business. It will be the good years that put us out of business because during the good part of the cycle, we're gonna commit to a stream of payments that we may or may not be able to keep up with in the other side of the cycle. Okay. And that and that makes sense in spades. You live that.
SPEAKER_03I'm just chuckling because my old man, you know him, and he is like a grinder. He it for him, it's the sine wave. He'll say, Son, don't you remember a damn thing you learned in in algebra about the sine wave? You never make a decision at the top. You make it at the bottom and you'll always be okay. That's what I mean. That's one of his isms.
Conformity, Corporate Deductions, And Uncertainty
Guardrails: Infrastructure, Schools, And Business Climate
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and the decisions you make at the top of the sine wave are uh, you know, you're betting that it's that it's going to stay up there and it's a sine wave. You know, so it's it's not. And uh, you know, so government commits to things. They create programs, but also uh, and don't get me wrong, I mean, here I'm a conservative Republican and a taxpayer that likes to pay less rather than more. And so I I appreciate a good tax cut. But if we're going to do that and run in the state responsibly, then arguably we made a commitment. So we had all these other commitments, and then we then for the last two years we've had record uh setting tax cuts. And Idaho has been doing well, but that but that's kind of been a head fake because of the federal money that has been in our system, and it works its way through and works its way through, and now all the tax cuts are coming home to roost this fiscal year or this coming fiscal year, and uh and all of our commitments that we have made. And uh and and you that's not the math will win. There, you know, uh I facetiously said here a little while ago that there's a good, but with the stroke of a pen, we just raised the revenue number up by uh you know 150 million dollars in change. And nothing happened. You know, I don't know, but but see, now we're guessing, everybody's guessing. So we're gonna we're the fiscal year starts on one July, that's four or five months away from now, and then goes for the next 12 year months after that, and we're setting a budget for those 12 months that haven't started and won't start for for five months based on revenue that is gonna come in that same 12 month period that starts five months from now. And so if you think that the revenues are gonna be here and I think that they're gonna be there, if for our radio audiences, I think Tommy thinks they're gonna be, let's say, at 5%, and I think they're gonna be at 7%. My my the budget that I can do is 7% year over year growth is sexier than Tommy's. Yeah. And so uh, and that's what and that's what we did. And the tax cuts were were uh attractive, they're still attractive, and so we have taken the flexibility out of the system because the commitments that we've made up to this point. And uh so you want to pan out to the federal system, we've taken a lot of, you know, you've got to service that debt. And so that takes a lot of flexibility out of the system. And uh, and so that's kind of where we're at. Idaho, thank heavens, has the balanced budget amendment. If it gets out of whack, the we it's the system is slapped, snapped right back into whack, if that's a state of being out of whack versus whack. Anyway, so that's that's a good thing. And uh that you saw that happen last year. Uh you know, we we went all session nearly without a revenue number, and we passed a bunch of tax cuts, and we passed a bunch of budgets, and then we took the revenue truck, backed it up to the dock, and raised the revenue number to cover all the stuff that we had done. And then we weren't we weren't two months into the new fiscal year when when everybody said, uh, this is, you know, even the most, you know, irrationally exuberant could see that it wasn't gonna be there. And so that triggered the governor, then the head of the executive branch, the legislature's not in session, then brings us back into WAC and said, Hey, we said we're gonna send you a dollar. Turns out we can only send you 97 cents. And that doesn't sound like a lot on the face of it, but there's a lot of contracts, obligations inside these agencies. And so that's that's kind of what's happened. And so you wonder, you're asking, like everyone, what's gonna drive this session? It's gonna be that fact that a lot of the flexibility is now out of the system, and we're gonna have to tend to business and get the and balance the budget, and that means our watchword is going to be no. And so uh that's sometimes hard. And so we're saying no to very deserving programs, arguably, somebody thought they were there in law, and uh so that's that's what's going to drive this session. But this morning they moved the number up by two and a half to two point something percent, which translates to 150 some million in this year, 140-ish next year, and whatever the out year is. And nothing, nothing changed other than everybody said, Well, we think the number's gonna be higher. Well, that's great, and I hope that it is. That's that's good. And uh, but if it isn't, then we're out of whack again. And we got to get back in this state. Into whack. Back into a state of whack. I'm so whacked, it's awesome. So that's that's kind of where we're at this session. Uh the good news is Idaho's economy is still growing, it's still doing good. And if we'll just tend to business here, mind our P's and Q's, as it were, then when we'll be able to navigate this. This is not like the Great Recession.
SPEAKER_03Uh I just learned on your podcast this week what mind your P's and Q's is from. There you go, man. Pines and Courts.
SPEAKER_01Pines and Courts is my guy. You don't even drink.
SPEAKER_02Well, but I had a mother that read to it. There you go. Oh, there you go.
SPEAKER_01Um there there was a uh September was a rough month as far as corporate earnings. Right. Um and speaking with some people from the Associated Taxpayers of Idaho, there there is some thought, and you know, other people, there is some thought that a lot of the corporations in Idaho were anticipating conformity it with within Idaho with the one big beautiful bill, meaning that they started taking deductions that were they were anticipating Idaho would then offer them in the future. Now that's obviously a gamble, because if Idaho doesn't conform, then there's gonna be, you know, potentially penalties and at the very least clawbacks. But that was a piece of information that that was shared with me that said, hey, look, it may not actually be as bad as you think. It may just be that people already assumed that they were gonna get these tax breaks out.
SPEAKER_03I had heard that too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So do you do you think that that might be a reason for optimism?
SPEAKER_02Well, the fact that we don't know and the fact that none of us uh can give an emphatic answer to that.
SPEAKER_01So you're telling me there's a chance.
New Idahoans, Old Facts, And Representation
SPEAKER_02So I'm telling you that it that uh when you're playing with somebody else's money, you you take all of this into account and then you discount it. You know, so if you if we both agree on a revenue number, then we would be smart, given this uncertainty that you just described, to ratchet it down 10 or 15 percent, just to give us a little wiggle room because we have all these people that are counting on us to do it right. And doing it right happens more when you leave yourself some flexibility rather than uh banking on the best case scenario after a set of best case scenarios. You know, the I it I don't we don't run our businesses that way. Don't tell me we need to run government more like a business and then do it and then live right on the edge, because businesses don't do that, and it and governments take a risk when they do. And that that that's kind of where I am at. I'm don't get me wrong, I love you know, cut if we didn't have a state to run and a whole bunch of obligations, starting with the things, the fundamentals that have made Idaho good, great infrastructure, or at least decent infrastructure. I don't want to start an argument with anybody, but uh uh a good public school system. Again, don't want to start an argument, but it it's a pretty good system. And then and then a positive business climate. If we start messing with those things, then we're asking for trouble. Now, we didn't directly mess with them, but what we did was take our flexibility away to continue to invest in the things that have made Idaho work, that have made us the envy of others. The reason people want to be here because we've done it right. And and and yeah, it hasn't been fancy, and and we, you know, we're not early innovators and we go slow, but I want my government to kind of do that, uh, unless I'm on the wrong side of some public land grazing issue. But anyway, that that's kind of where we're at here. So that'll drive the session. Those guys get it. Uh, you know, sign me up for the balanced budget amendment. Boo-hoo, if if it's gonna be hard. I don't have a problem with that. What if? You know, the the the budget that the governor submitted was just a lit was the exact same expenditures as the previous year. That's a novel concept. I think the federal government could do that. Yeah. And uh, you know, everybody wants to doge, uh, you know, and and and Idaho's always been dogey. Uh, but if but if that if you but if the federal government had just had to live on the money they got last year, I think that the expertise lies in those agencies uh to to get by. And then let's see what next year is. Maybe give them a little, you know, that will you do that, you'll find where the problems are, and then we'll have a then Congress should step up and have a robust conversation on those problems against a fixed number, and then we'll prioritize against that fixed number. But as long as you can, as long as there's never a consequence, hey.
SPEAKER_03That's that's been the counterarm, but if not that, then what, right? What uh what's gonna happen?
SPEAKER_02And every every musical chairs player is you know, as long as the music keeps going, it doesn't matter if you notice out of the corner of your eye, hey, a chair just left, hey, a chair has left. I'm counting chairs, I'm counting people. They're not, you know, there's gonna be somebody who doesn't get a chair here, but the music, and just like you made, uh, you know, Idaho has always conformed to the federal changes, by and large. You know, yeah, there we've we've gilded the lily here, tweaked a little there, but uh we have always conformed. So the head fake, the the tradition, the the things you could take to the bank was Idaho, the federal government cut taxes, well, we'll cut them too. And so I I I think that that it's always been a safe bet to you know, to bet that we would conform. And I'll bet they come pretty close to conforming. They found money to do it with, right? So uh anyway, I I've been around for a while, and some of these things kind of get under my skin, but none of that help helps. If I've been around, then that means I got some experience and I'm I'm I'm ready to help work it. It's Idaho. Let's fix it.
SPEAKER_01Um, here's a question for you. You you referenced earlier that you would call home and that somebody would say, Hey man, you know stuff. We don't, I got things to do. Stop calling.
SPEAKER_02I can't it was not that okay. I mean it was okay. It would be way more diplomatic, but the message was clear.
Money, Influence, And Staying Grounded
SPEAKER_01Right. Um the the concern I have uh largely, there are areas of this state, you know, and I live in one that have grown so fast that we're no longer playing with the same set of facts. So if you call home, you might be calling somebody who's been here for like three years. I mean, I just passed the four-year mark. Now I spend, I spend all day long trying to understand the state, but it it puts everybody in a very precarious situation because you have large populations that now are no longer oriented to the way Idaho has been doing it. And that could be something like a canal company getting A1 water from a sewage treatment plant. That people think it's raw sewage is like, hang on, man, this water is cleaner than the water that's flowing down this canal right now. But how do how do you guys organize laws knowing that you're not all playing with the same book of facts?
SPEAKER_02Well, I the what we are playing with your your district organized itself and sent night errants. Again, I had a mother that read to me. And they send their representatives into the legislative process. And so that newness to Idaho, that different point of view is in the mix. If it carries the day, then great, I guess. I mean, I'm no, not great. Let me tell you, not great.
SPEAKER_01Well, and again, I like my reps. I'm just saying that you you have people that you have representatives that are beholden to individuals that are low information voters. Right.
SPEAKER_02And so money moves the those elections. And uh we've got uh, you know, so the body politic, it's incumbent. This system doesn't work unless we have an engaged citizenry. And that's my plea is I can live with good faith decisions. They may not they may not completely align with my value set. And uh but and if they don't, then that means I didn't explain myself well enough. You know, I mean I uh but I we can live with that, but I I don't think that we should reward the loudest voice. Or I don't think I that that never ends well. And if this and if the legislative process turns out, you know, turns into whoever can gaslight the best. Right.
SPEAKER_03That's not what I'm probably gonna be a really bad analogy. But I've got a question for you. And it may just be a horrible question. So this is great. So when I was when I was in the when I was in the ER, and I think about my medical education, and I thought I think who influenced me. It was who had the money to influence me. And I've actually got some guilt because when I went through, you know, I was in the 90s when I went through residency in medical school, and it was all about pain. And I think about who influenced me. It was the pharmaceutical companies trying to get us to write pain scripts. And I was part of that. I mean, I remember in Tucson and when I moved here, getting dropped off golf clubs and golf balls, and just you know, they say you only wrote this many scripts. And my formal training was, hey, we don't treat pain enough. So I look at how I was influenced by big money as I went through as a physician. And I have I have some guilt about that. I'm like, I I wish I would have questioned more, right? In politics, how do you, if I'm just in your position, because I see, you know, you see the way this thing goes, and you've got the average citizens with the loud, but you also have big business, right? Uh-huh that that is the ones with the money, right? Whether that be and I'm not, there's not casting a judgment here, whether that be the hospital association or IACI or a union or an out of state thing. How do you keep how do you keep grounded? How do you keep um asking yourself the question of hey, who who I'm I'm just wondering how you do that.
History, Statesmanship, And Public Schools
SPEAKER_02Well a couple of thoughts. I remember that trust. Somebody trusted me to represent them. And so with that comes a an obligation for me to understand the issues. And uh and you may have noticed that if you ask me what time it is, I give you a little tutorial on watch building. Because I because on some level I I don't arrive at my conclusions uh in a haphazard way. And uh and that's why you and I get along because we we explore, which is not formal exploration, but we explore.
SPEAKER_01Listen, I'm sophisticated. I'm not sophisticated, but I'm pretty sophisticated.
SPEAKER_03But we we dissect we might have to make sweatshirts like that, Nick Shirley, the learning center that he's got there. Maybe it's the the red.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm the most sophisticated podcast, and I I'm I'm sophisticated.
SPEAKER_02So I'm telling you, if you can't explain this to your mother-in-law over Thanksgiving dinner, yeah, then you maybe don't understand it well enough. And she'll cut right straight to the chase with you, blessed her heart. And uh uh and and they I believe we owe uh we gotta take our job seriously. And so that so that sifts through a lot of this stuff.
SPEAKER_03So let me ask so let me ask Fallout, because I've thought about Matt and I had a big deep discussion.
SPEAKER_02But you're not gonna make the same decisions that you made now, you know, in 2025 that you made in in 1995 or whatever.
SPEAKER_03But but something near and dear to me was healthcare, right? And you watch how it was when I started 35 years ago, and you watch how insurance changed, and you watched how I remember when I was, I was I remember where I was standing in the doctor's lounge and who was next to me when the big beautiful bill when uh Obamacare passed, and Biden said this is a big effing deal into Obama's ear. And I'm like, yeah, it is. And I watch how it changed, and I watch how the whole Medicaid expansion argument and all that's happened now, and how as an older guy now, I'm like, sometimes I listen to arguments a lot of times on your show, actually, because that's where I'm getting, and I'm like, that is a complete rewrite of history, right? So I think talk to me about this, about having the longevity and wisdom of being there a long time, blending that with new voices there and understanding what really happened and where we're at, and so we don't make mistakes of the past, because all of these things, that's when I say it's complicated, Scott, it you might think, hey, I'm I'm I'm doing the right thing now, but where does where does the statesmanship come in? Where does the history and the wisdom come? Is that the process?
SPEAKER_02I think that it it ought to be the process because that's why that's why we bring all these people from all around the state to to to bring up a testify and question, and then we kick it around and probe, put that idea on trial. And I mean a good old-fashioned trial. And uh you bring in people on one side and the other, and then we got to make a choice. And uh so I I don't know how better to do it than the way we do it, and but when I see people shirking the reason that are inside the system that don't uh give it a good faith, good old-fashioned by my standard uh uh attempt, that bugs me because, well, I mean, as we talk about uh take, for example, we talk about public education. As you read uh, you know, the at the Constitutional Convention of Idaho and what led up to Article 9, Section 1, where the security of a Republican form of government is dependent upon the, and they use the word intelligence of the people, it shall therefore be the responsibility of the legislature to provide a general, uniform, thorough system of comma-free schools. It was not about the school per se, it was about keeping the republic. Therefore, we need public schools. And so as we as we go down this road or that road, I'm kind of agnostic. I'm kind of a keep the republic kind of guy. Whatever, whatever it takes to engage, you know, if we could get everybody as you know up to speed on on civics, well, that would be that would work. And whatever system gets now, the founders chose public schools, and we haven't amended the constitution yet. Or in my opinion, should we? But I think that we we but let's keep in mind why they created a system of common free schools was to keep it public.
SPEAKER_03We should be looking at the history and how we got here, and all of this should be part of this debate that happens over in that place we can see out our window here where it gets vetted, and you have all sides and opinions, and you have hopefully very genuine people sitting up there on a committee and then the body of the legislature to pass things and you and you and it goes through the goes through the process.
Local Control, School Building, And Efficiency
SPEAKER_02And then everybody's gonna vote their self-interest. I love the I love how you wrap that around. But and and so when you have enough self-interest align. I mean, if you put out, I mean, here's a phenomenon, and this is true. I mean, if we're if we have some statewide issue, then nobody engages until they see the spreadsheet to see how it affects their county, their legislative district, their school district, their highway district, whatever. And are they a winner or a loser on this and the hypotheticals? And now we can have, and so and uh, and so there are there are some and always will be, and there'll be a different set on each issue that will rise above that and say, well, yeah, but it's you know, it for the good of the order, the good of the order kind of guys. And uh, but but one but people vote their pocketbook, and that doesn't change when they get to the legislature. I mean, so whatever the self-interests are from their communities, you can expect them to uh to go that direction. And then that that amalgamates into a into a decision. And uh and if it doesn't work, well, next year we're gonna have 300 laws, and one of them is gonna fix something.
SPEAKER_03You know what's hilarious about this is uh last fall I got invited bipartisan by some legislators, very good people, to go some part in the state, and I'm not gonna embarrass anybody to go say, hey, if we could conform on how we build the schools in this area, and we had standardized schools and we came together, we could afford a school, and it's and they had all this very great ideas. And so I'm like, yeah, I'll drive. I went and spent a whole day of my life over there. I'm thinking, this is this is progress. And we sat in a room with all these four school districts, and it started off awesome until the voting started happening. Now, how does this affect us? And then I watched the whole meeting blow up blow up, disintegrate, and then I had my whole drive back thinking, uh but how does this ever work?
SPEAKER_02Here's the thing there when that building right there was was built, or that building right there, we didn't reinvent the wheels. Yeah, we used everything we if if the plans for bathrooms and electrical and plumbing worked over there, that would scale over here, anyway. Uh but we also want local control. Yeah. And we've set up these taxing districts called school districts, and we've elected people from that district that's exactly where I went.
SPEAKER_03It was, hey, we've been physically responsible. We had, I can't remember, it was some couple million dollars in the bank. You haven't been. It's been 10 years that we'll be it'll be never that we've ever combined. It was so quickly that I'm like, okay, all this great ideas are just, you know. But but I there's a lot, you know. I it was fun to watch the process because your point, you listen to the other arguments, and then you're like, hey, they're they're there.
SPEAKER_02If you're coming from a school district that has gone through the pulling teeth exercise to get a bond passed, and you're and it took you multiple tries, and you finally did it.
SPEAKER_03The last thing you want to do is consolidate with your next one.
SPEAKER_02Well, there's there's that, but then but then when you hear horror stories from some other part of the state, you you you're not overly sympathetic because you were able to do it. I mean, so if you're gonna anyway, there I think that that's part of the beauty of our system, but does it create inefficiencies? Is that that you do not what if we had just three sets of plans for big schools, medium-sized schools, and little schools and uh Lieutenant Governor, I am not giving up.
Why He Serves: Grandkids And Horizon Thinking
SPEAKER_03I have I am this is like my side project right now because I'm like, there is a better way to do this. Hey, we're we're out of time. All right. Well, last word for you. Thank you for coming, first of all, but last word.
SPEAKER_02Well, I'm exploring why I continue to do this. And and uh and I'll tell a quick story. I I told it uh a little bit at the at the lunch the other day. You know, so Sarah has you know decorates the home beautifully, and on the Christmas tree are these little portraits about three by three of all the grandkids, and they're on there, and the kids like to go find themselves. Well, we were a couple of grandkids short, and so she needed somebody, me, to go in on the computer and take the pictures that she sent me and make them three by three. I don't know how to do that, as it turns out, but I could make it print out eight and a half by eleven. And I said, and and everybody was coming over, which was last minute. And uh I said, so why don't we just well, and then she said, Well, we can't have them be the big pictures and everybody else. So, and I said, Fine, I'll I'll print them all out in large. Oh, we don't have enough ink to do all that. I said, Well, if we run out, then we'll we'll cross that bridge, we'll have one of the grandkids come over and show us how to reduce it. And and so I but it turned out so I had all 16 of our grandkids and eight and a half by 11, and I put them on the tree, and then and and that was that was better than any other, you know, festival of trees, you know, Christmas tree that we could. That was just our tree, but pop, you know, covered with our kids. And I would find myself, and I'm a fairly early riser, and I'd get up and I'd go sit out out there, and uh, you know, and I gotta go back to Boise, and and I would just and I but I didn't want to wake the house up. I said I'm gonna turn on the Christmas lights and then see those kids. And I'm proud of them. And I and so that is that's a good enough reason for me to come and leave what I think is a pretty, you know, it's a pretty comfortable situation and and all the diversity that being on a ranch. And I mean, I I have a good life that that I am leaving to come over here and do this, and I'm doing it, and you'll hear Governor Little talk this way. He he he and I try to make our decisions through what is going to be the best for our grandkids and your grandkids and your grandkids or your kids. You're a lot younger than us kids. But anyway, if we if we do that and and look, if we just raise our eyes up to the horizon. I don't I don't want deep thoughts. I just want you to to just to look to the horizon a little bit and let's do what you know let's make our decision cycle be longer than than it is. And and and the rewards in that in the short decision cycle are they're perverse to the good of the order long term sometimes. And and and I you know, so I can't I can't fix everything. I you know largely uh you know I they don't let the lieutenant governor vote much. He's uh he gets invited to some of the meetings. And but I'm but I uh but my point is is that I think I want to be one of the voices in the mix so that makes the decision. And I can say, hey, did you ever think of this or did you think of that? Because turns out there's not a lot of new under the sun here. And uh uh, but these new people that are coming in, I want to hear, I want to hear their ideas. Because we certainly don't have a the old guys don't have a corner on good ideas, and and so there's this amalgamation that happens, the give and take, the some of the parts add up to more. And so we got to bring that out. And if we have a system that uh you know, where everybody can't go out and and feel comfortable in throwing out a dumb idea and then learning why it's a dumb idea and then tailoring it, you know, throwing out dumb ideas has never stopped you, Matt. It certainly has not. And look, and look at you. But the you're but the but you probably should have. I don't think so. I have loved watching you acclimate here, and uh I I think that that that is a great thing. Would that everybody would dive into issues as you have now? I I realize all and all and all, but uh we logical people exposed to all the same facts will come up with something that is logical collectively. And I think we've got a system that that that does that. Is it hard to watch sometimes? Yeah, is it is it, you know, is it get on your nerves? Yeah, but it's worth it because we got something here that is worthwhile. And I am count me in. What else would we want to do with our time? I I mean besides that, put the kids back at the ranch like it when I'm here.
SPEAKER_03Anyway. So hey, uh express our love and appreciation of Sarah. I will. You're definitely better half. Um, she's wonderful.
SPEAKER_02And uh well, I was thinking about this, if I may, real quick. We are fourth generation because the bed key men married way above themselves. I think starting at the top, starting at the first generation, uh, those were tough women. Yeah. And uh my grandmother was that was cut out of that cloth, my mother was, Sarah is. Uh, you know, if we're just smart enough to listen to them, and we get around to it eventually. But you know, it takes patience. And anyway, I but see, every I'm not our story is not unique in Idaho. Our communities are full of of good people and good families and good, well-meaning people, and and that that's also keeps me going as I get to go out and rub shoulders with all these these good people, and they challenge my thinking, and and uh and if I get and if I start avoiding that, then it's time for everybody to look for a new lieutenant governor.
SPEAKER_03Thank you, my friend. Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02You're welcome.
SPEAKER_03Thanks, everybody.