Ever Onward Podcast

What’s Really Happening in Idaho’s Capitol Right Now with Speaker Mike Moyle | Ever Onward - Ep. 112

• Ahlquist. • Season 1 • Episode 112

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What’s actually happening inside the Idaho Capitol this session? In this episode of Ever Onward, Tommy Ahlquist and guest co-host Matt Todd sit down with Idaho House Speaker Mike Moyle for a candid, in-the-moment conversation recorded during one of the most intense stretches of the legislative calendar.

They break down the real priorities driving this year’s session — budget pressure, tax cuts, spending constraints, Medicaid cost growth, and the ongoing property tax debate — along with how rapid turnover among legislators is reshaping committee leadership and decision-making. Speaker Moyle shares how experience, institutional knowledge, and negotiation shape outcomes behind the scenes, and why the learning curve for new lawmakers matters more than most voters realize.

The conversation also tackles the modern political environment: social media misinformation, AI-driven narratives, out-of-state money in Idaho races, and why long-form discussion may be the only way to restore context and trust. They also dig into state vs. local control tensions, revenue sharing, and the continued controversy around property tax structure and HB 389.

Direct, unfiltered, and wide-ranging — this episode offers a ground-level view of Idaho governance, leadership under pressure, and what it takes to keep the state moving forward.

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Meet Speaker Mike Moyle

SPEAKER_04

Today on the Ever Onward podcast, uh my co-host this month, Matt Todd, and I are very, very excited to have uh Mike Moyle on. It's unusual for him to be able to squeeze out some time when the session's on, uh, but Mike is an unbelievable guy. He's the 42nd Speaker of the House of Representatives in Idaho. Uh, Mike has been in politics and in the House of Representatives since 2006, so he's celebrating his 20th year there. Um, Mike has seen it all, done it all, been there, done that when it comes to Idaho politics, really knows how to get things done. Um, he's an incredibly busy guy. He's from Starr, Idaho. Um, he is a farmer, uh rancher there in Starr, um, and one of the pillars of our community and an overall wonderful, wonderful guy. We're excited that he's gonna come on today and talk about everything that he's looking forward to in this session. We'll talk a little bit about leadership and about Idaho, uh, the state we all love. So today, um, Matt and I will interview uh the Speaker of the House, Mike Moyle Mm. Speaker Moyle, thank you for coming on with Matt and I. Thanks for having us. We're uh doing themes this month, this year, and Matt was kind enough to come on with me and uh thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_04

He'll get you in trouble, I'm telling you. Trust me. Well, no, what I love about what I love about Matt is is uh, man, I I'm a faithful listener, but there's so many issues. It's complicated.

SPEAKER_02

He does a lot of them too. There is a lot of them. It's amazing. You do great work.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02

I'm I'm impressed.

SPEAKER_03

I appreciate it. I had uh I had uh Representative Petsky on this morning just talking about JFAC, man. Like what a what a crazy situation there, man. It's gonna be awesome.

SPEAKER_02

It's gonna be, it's gonna be something. We're gonna cut some budgets, we're gonna cut some tax, it's gonna be amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

No, I uh first of all, it's the first week here of things really heating up. We call it Hell Week. We call we're we're we we're we're filming and recording this down at uh the Zions Bank building, so we're close to the Capitol because we figured it would be easier for you run it over here because you because the late I was only 10 minutes late.

SPEAKER_02

I'm sorry. It's pretty good for me at this time of day.

SPEAKER_04

No, we really appreciate you making time and just wanted to give you a chance. I mean, there's there's a lot of guys in in in this this state that make things happen, Mike, but you're uh you're the top of that list. So so wanted to get your your thoughts on on how it's not me, it's we it's a we thing. It is a we thing, but you're a great leader. People follow people, and um, you're in this role and um been fun. Let us know how it's going and how you're doing and kind of priorities for the session.

Session Priorities And JFAC Shakeups

SPEAKER_02

Hey, doing good. Things are good. You know, it's gonna be an interesting session. You've you visited a little bit, many of all that JFAC. You know, we've got some big changes. We had four chairmen, you know, that moved out this year and changed things up, and that's changed a lot of the dynamics. Every committee is different than it was a year ago, which is big. But the big issues this year is the money, right? There's the money's not there. And in the meantime, you've got the big, beautiful bill that's been thrown at us. So we're gonna do some interesting things. We're gonna cut taxes and we're gonna cut budgets and we're gonna go home.

SPEAKER_04

What it is. Does when you're going into a session that isn't election year, is that what is that? Is that on anyone's mind on like this year?

SPEAKER_02

The election year.

SPEAKER_04

Is it okay?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, there's more of an incentive to get the heck out of there, right? You think they're all afraid. You hear that, right? Oh, yeah, absolutely. We gotta hurry, we gotta go, gotta go. And you never know, right? Because you know, when you're a legislature in Idaho, it's every other year. And it's a you're it's like Congress, you know, you're if you're a House member in Congress, it you're always running, right? You're always running. And this new world of Idaho, those dynamics when it comes to elections have changed immensely. And we've talked about that before, Matt, with the out-of-state influence, the out-of-state money, and the and the new people that are moving here, they're coming here because they're afraid, right? They're running away from something. A lot of them are fleeing. And what they don't know, they don't know. But their fear causes them sometimes to think things that are different than what the reality really is. And it makes it a little difficult sometimes.

SPEAKER_03

Do you may I ask, do you do you struggle with balancing what you know is right for Idaho, which might be something that is not very attractive in the in the near term, but right in the long term, especially in this time frame when obviously you're going into primary session, your district in particular has uh exploded with population that isn't oriented properly to know, hey, you know, Speaker Moyle might be making a decision that I don't like today, but like it's better in the long run. They don't have that orientation. So, like, how do you manage working out this? I have to do what's right, but I also am hoping to get re-elected.

SPEAKER_02

That's a great question because it's difficult, right? We live in a republic, right? People elect us to do what's right, even if it's not popular. And that's hard for some, right? And and so, and the education process now is different than it used to be. Everything's changed with this social media crap, right? I can say whatever I want about you, Tommy or Matt. And A, it doesn't have to be the truth. And you can have it. It doesn't even have to be you. No, you just have to be. I can have you say it about Tommy. Yeah, right. And and the and the problem is people read that stuff and some people just suck it up. They believe it. So when you're trying to do what's right for Idaho and you're trying to get around some of the misinformation, and you're seeing it with some of the groups and the money they're spending here, it's not about what's right for Idaho, it's about what's right for them. And that's my biggest concern about everything, right? It's out of state money. It's not it's about control.

Elections, Out-Of-State Money, And Fear

SPEAKER_04

Well, and and some of the attacks are just like, you're like, what on earth? You need to attack that guy that he's not far enough right. I mean, it's like it's just so crazy, Mike. And and you see it, and it and it is out of state money. And because it's Idaho, the number of dollars it takes to really influence people, especially with social media and spends, it doesn't take I mean, you you throw a hundred thousand dollars at some of these races, it's a big deal.

SPEAKER_02

And that doesn't take anything like it used to, makes it easier for them to lie. Yeah now they attack your family, they attack your kids, they it's just not what it's not Idaho, right? We didn't do it that way before. You know, we used to be able to go down, have a really good debate, get mad at each other, and then go to lunch and be friends, right? It's no big deal. You could separate the issue from the individual. Now it's the the liberal way is to divilify the and it's not just liberal, it's far right or far left, is divilify the individual.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Different. I don't like it.

SPEAKER_04

You've been in here 20 years, right?

SPEAKER_02

I think 28 going on 28. Yeah, 27 going on 28. That's right. Longest serving one left. 98, right?

SPEAKER_03

28. This is the 28. No, I know, but you weren't it came in at 98. 98. Yeah. 98, right?

SPEAKER_02

Elected in 98, the first session was started in 99.

SPEAKER_04

You've seen it all.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I never thought I'd be here this long. I ran for one reason. I want to cut taxes. And you go, look, I've cut more tax anybody on history. It's been awesome. Someday I'm gonna figure out how many billions in tax really they've got to be.

SPEAKER_04

Hey, give us a little context on because you have been here so long, because I I do think you know, you look at the invent of the iPhone and then you look at social media explosion and how interactions and for people, you know, one of the things that we've talked about a lot is just there are really, really good people in Idaho. I mean, there are. That's why they're that's why Idaho's growing. We have the best state of the nation.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04

And then you you you start really spending time with the legislators over here. They're really good people. They are, they're great people, and they're coming here with a lot of but then you do have a few, and you have these outside influences of money that are trying to vilify people and attack them for their very individual thing and they're they're dropping money. But their ability to do that now is just so different than it was back then. I mean, as one of the senior statesmen in the state, um, how how do we ever take it back? Does it change or is this just the new normal?

SPEAKER_02

I I don't know how you ever change it. I don't how you I don't know how you put the genie back in the bottle. I I don't. And and the sad thing is it makes it harder for us as legislators to really know the truth, right? Yeah, I get hundreds and hundreds of emails a day. I don't know if they're real people. I got one from my wife the other day, and I'm like, did you send this? It's like no, so all these legislators are calling me because because but back to what we talked about earlier. The truth doesn't matter anymore. I can take your name and your name, throw them something on it and send it out, and it's kind of scary. So now the problem is when legislators see that, you don't know whether to believe it or not, right? So I have a hard time. I'll go through lots of them trying to find out ones that are really people that I'll and I'll call several of them. I've got back this weekend, I spent time finding some, then I'll call them this week. But some of them you miss because there's so many. But again, I don't know how you put the genie back because it it's ruining our I'm telling you, it's ruining our whole generation of children. Watch, I watch my grandkids with those phones, and my daughter does the one daughter does a good job of taking away the other doesn't, and you can see the difference in the kids. And so I don't know how you fix it. Schools, you know, you're gonna see us probably do a bill this year to take the phones out of the schools, and parents are mad about that because they can't contact their children. I it's just crazy. I just don't know how you put the genie back because our society and it's getting with AI, it's getting worse. Now I can make it up and it looked real. I don't know. I don't know how you fix it. I'm all ears if you got an idea.

Doing What’s Right Vs Getting Reelected

SPEAKER_03

Well, there are there are imbalances within the state, right? But isn't that isn't that just the nature of of people, right? Like if the imbalance, if if you might consider something hard right or you might consider something hard left, isn't it the burden of the people that don't agree with it to explain why it's not right? Like, yeah, it might take more than two seconds on social media, but like at some point, like up your game. Like if people are out competing you in a certain communication mechanism with and and expressing the code. But what if they're lying? That's the best line that helps you. So what you understand the lie?

SPEAKER_04

And what I love about what you do when I like I slobber all over the time I see it, because you're you get people on in a long format, right? You know, in 45 minutes on a ranch podcast, on whatever the issue is, you really understand that person. You can kind of say, I get it, right? Sure. But in these these clips that are absolute lies and that as easy as it is to throw them out, how do you that's how do you how do you separate the two? How do you how do you I don't know? And that's why I think long format, I think legacy media is dead because I wouldn't believe anything I saw on the local news now about almost anything. Nobody doesn't, and I don't think people watch, but the the new way to go around that is long format. I'll sit and listen to, I think of the guests you've had this last week. The stuff I sometimes I tell them, I'm ready to jump through the freaking car, my headphones because I'm so mad about what someone's saying. But I sit there and I listen and it's long format, at least I have their opinion. But that's different than lies. How do you how do you get through the lies that are thrown out? But I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

I don't know how you get through the lies, but you bring another thing up. Most people won't take the time to listen to the long format. I think it's the new standard. I think they're doing it, but most people want the two-second clip. Well, and when you're defending, you're losing.

SPEAKER_04

Certainly when certainly when they're scrolling, that's what they're getting.

SPEAKER_03

But I I think if you do it properly, like like pick a lie. Like, hey man, uh Idaho is underwater. Okay. It's like, okay, fine. If if you can prove that it's again, if you're complaining that there's this communication mechanism that allows people to get out mistruths very quickly and easily, fine, correct it quickly and easily. The problem, the problem is that the people that cultivate and curate those platforms, they're doing it all day. You're busy. Yeah, you're really busy. You're not spending all day on Instagram, but there are people that make whole careers of, I'm gonna spend all day all the time.

SPEAKER_04

So you have to be I want to hear you because I think you understand that. So what you're saying is for a politician that is there for the right reasons, authentication.

SPEAKER_02

I'll be called a farmer, not both public servant.

SPEAKER_04

For a public servant, whatever the hell. You're gonna need to have an arm of your campaign that's basically You're gonna need to have to figure out how to communicate.

SPEAKER_03

Now, if you have people that willfully neglect uh corrective truths, right? So it's like, okay, I know that there's a there's a rebuttal to this statement, I'm just not gonna listen to it. R man, you're never gonna reach those people. But for the people that are concerned about something, you have to appear in parallel in the same communication ecosystem. So they're like, oh, I had no idea. Okay, that gives me something to think about. If you're not doing that, people can stick their head in the sand like an ostrich. It doesn't matter, you're still gonna get eaten alive. That's a great point.

SPEAKER_02

But even when you respond, you get eaten alive, right? So back to your comment, you've got these people that do it for a living. It doesn't matter what Mike Morell says, they're going to eat me alive, right? I respond, all of a sudden I'm on the defense. It's not worth my time, right? I I get to the point where common sense somewhere needs to come back into this equation. Some of this stuff that you hear and see on this these digging phones is not even common sense. Right. And and if people believe that don't have enough common sense for that, we're in bigger, bigger trouble than we all realize. So there's a balance. I just don't know where the balance is. Because you're right, you have to respond. I mean, you did some great things for my last election.

SPEAKER_03

We had the opportunity to talk and could talk about you the day before the primary.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, talk about those issues that weren't out there because there was no other way, even spending money and setting flyers and doing all you reach a group of people that are trying to find answers, and that's good.

SPEAKER_03

Right. And I ultimately, to be to be really honest, I think I don't think you're gonna have the time to do it. I don't think uh the constitutional officer is gonna have the time. I don't think each individual legislator is gonna have to have the time. Like that's kind of the problem that I aimed to resolve, which is hey, what if there was somebody trying to mainline the leaders to everyone because they'll never have the time to do it? That's again, like that's a really difficult problem. I don't know that people could individually resolve it, especially when you're dealing with two-year terms or four-year terms. Like, it's just too big. You need a you need some kind of platform.

Social Media, Misinformation, And AI

SPEAKER_04

And I'm gonna add to that as someone I'm, you know, I am proud of what I'm gonna tell you. It doesn't take a lot of money to influence some of this stuff. There's some people that are absolute knuckleheads that I couldn't stand. And we have enough money that we have a pack and we went and did some things a couple, you know, and we're gonna do it again this year. So, but but but I guess my point is because you're busy and because it doesn't take a lot to get out there, it it is, it's interesting. So, as I I just don't want to be a hypocrite sitting here saying all this stuff, but and I don't think we told lies, but I think we were pretty aggressive with very small dollars in legislative races and we made a difference.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and but but there's the truth and there's the lie part. And that's the part what I've always tried to separate when you can do that, but you can't do that anymore. You can't separate them. You're you're right, small amount of money hit strategically, but now the problem you have is you have all these out-of-state dollars that are huge. We're not we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars to do what used to be be able to be done with you know, a race race if you spent more than 20 grand, it was crazy. My last one was what almost half a million. Yeah, this would have been cheaper to run for statewide office. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_03

I gotta say, man, it seems sitting at this table, it's like, listen, you're almost three decades into serving Idaho as an elected official. You invest in PACs and influence, and I am a monkey. It was like, hey man, like can somebody give me some info about like the digital IDs? Like, what like what do we it's it's again, I think digital IDs I think you do need all three pieces, right? Like you need, I think you need private citizens that are engaged with their individual interests supporting legislators. I think you need the public servants, but I also think you need uh somebody who is either informed and like not shooting one way or another, just look, man, let's figure out what reality is.

SPEAKER_04

And I believe the format is the thing because I think of people you've had on on the left that I totally don't agree with, but I've listened to them for 45 minutes on your on your podcast ranch. And I I love it. I'm like, I at least I heard them. I still disagree with them more than I ever did before. And sometimes it gets worse.

SPEAKER_00

It goes exactly sometimes.

SPEAKER_04

You start with, oh man, I can't wait to hear this. And by the end of it, you're like, how on earth can you believe that in the world we're in, right? But that's good for us.

SPEAKER_03

I never thought of that. That's funny. It it it's on both sides, and let me tell you, just imagine being in my seat. Like, oh my god, I got it's like we're only 10 minutes in. This is getting hot.

SPEAKER_05

I can I've listened to enough of them now, Matt, that I can tell. I can you can tell when the flip switch flips and you're like, oh no.

SPEAKER_01

No, you didn't get a job.

SPEAKER_03

You get a job at hide the switch. Oh my gosh, it's bad. I got tells. I'm not gonna tell you what they are, but I got them.

SPEAKER_04

Well, Mike, as as you go through this session, uh, talk to us a little bit about the changing. There's a lot of new uh legislators this year, right? Um and and how is that as the leader um and and doing what you're doing? Talk talk us through the orange, because one of the things I think that makes us feel good as citizens, as you know, Idahoans that are voting for these folks and watching watching the sausage be made, is I do think that there's an education process, there's bringing people up to speed. Right. There's a lot of that that goes on with you meeting with people and kind of giving them background on issues. Is that is that a it's a learning curve.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, right. The new guys, it's a learning curve. One thing that people don't realize, if you look at the legislature, the turnover is huge. Yeah. And that's a lot, you know, that's a good thing, but it's also really a bad thing. Because there's a you you don't just go down there and run in and start doing legislation, right? You don't just go down there and know all the issues, it takes time. And the and you'll you'll start seeing the more seasoned legislators, and you're assuming that today they're teaching the others so they understand because they'll come in with these preconceived conceptions of what reality is, and then they get down, they go, Whoa, that's not what I thought it was, right? And there's a learning curve. And that learning curve, you've got to have you know, somebody that's been there to teach them. And in the meantime, you have the bureaucrats that are trying to direct them their way too. So it's so it's it's a learning curve that takes time, but we've had such huge turnover the last few years that a lot of you've got a lot of people that are in leadership positions that have only been there a year, one session, one term or less. I mean, they're just new, they haven't been there a long time, and it and they're doing a good job, but they're always asking questions because they're trying to find out what the truth back to the truth thing. What you know, what do we need to do? How do we get this done? What tell me the history? And the history and the institutional knowledge is very important too, because it helps you understand why things do we do what we do now. And so that's good too. But it's it's a learning curve. There's new changes everywhere. Three new ones this month. They're all three great individuals, they're doing a good job, hit the ground running. But remember, they came in where half of them were renewed the year before, so it's just it's just a learning curve. It's fun.

SPEAKER_03

Um Representative Pesky was on. I I interviewed him today. He's the tied for the third most senior ranking member in JFAC, and I think this is his fourth session. Right? Like, so he hasn't even gone through, you know, like he's going into his third election cycle, and uh, you know, he's he's one of the big dogs there.

Turnover, Institutional Knowledge, And Learning Curves

SPEAKER_02

That's my point. It's that way with all the committees. Look at all of them. You've got some vice chairs and stu and chairs, you know, the chairman of JFAC's been there. Three years. I mean, it's there's a lot of movement and that's good, but that can also be dangerous, right? Because they don't know why things happen the way they did. They didn't live through those battles. History repeats itself, right? But when you haven't experienced the history, you don't understand what the history was before, it makes it worse because you repeat it worse than it did the first time.

SPEAKER_04

That's what we've been talking. We've been talking a couple times on on just healthcare. Yeah. It's I've listened to a few people go on his show and and talk about the mess we're in, right? With Medicaid. And I'm thinking to myself, was nobody here like 20 years ago to see how this whole thing was how how how this, you know, how we crap the bed. You know what I mean? And and and now you just like to your point, everyone wipes that history as they're saying, okay, how do we fix it and go forward? And go, wait a minute, what what are what are we learning from what we just did? And and and then I I understand the counterargument, which is we're so far down the road on some of these things that there is no fix, but there's gotta be a fix, Mike. I I can't, I can't, I can't look at my grant. You've got it.

SPEAKER_02

Tell me what it is. But I can't think Medicaid's gonna destroy the state if you don't figure out.

SPEAKER_04

It's gonna destroy the country, right? Well, it is destroying the country. Because of the perverse incentives that came with it, right?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I mean we incentivize people not to work.

SPEAKER_04

It's not and and you look at what happened with with Obamacare, oh, it's disaster. It's a it's it was you know you could predict the disaster it was from the moment it happened. And I always go back to this and I get hammered for it. But I was a huge Mitt Romney guy because of his health care plan. And I still keep in my desk every day, and I look at it the first hundred days what he would have done with healthcare entitlements. And he got the irony of iron is he got hammered for it because he's like, that was a mandate in Massachusetts. It was never a mandate. All he said is let's take the really, really poor people that we're gonna take care of somehow, through whether it be through charity or county covering or whatever, and let's make sure they're covered so that if they get in a horrible thing, they're covered by something, right? That was the mandate. And then he privatized the heck out of it. It was a competitive environment where you had to keep hospitals and providers accountable because there was competition. And instead, we don't have that now. We pass a bill, we pass a bill, and and then all these big businesses eat it up and they're like, oh, I can take advantage of that, and I can take advantage of that, and I can pull that lever, and I can pull that lever. We are we are we are so screwed.

SPEAKER_02

You can't, you can't, you gotta start all over. You know, the state of Idaho didn't do Medicaid expansion for years and years. The states that didn't expand ended up on the on the exchange, which is where I wish everybody was. The exchange, you're in the private market, subsidize their insurance, everything works that way. That's the way to handle it. But now we've got just a handout mess, and I don't have to fix it. We're you know, we're we're talking about going to managed care in the next three years. Now all the discussions are is that good or bad? And there's some good things and bad things, but if it's done wrong, it'll be worse. I I just I don't know how you make it.

SPEAKER_04

So 10 years ago when the whole managed care and and value-based care system, I mean, and remember David Pate when he came, I thought, oh, this is gonna be the thing, this is gonna be it. And then we bought Psalter.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

And I got two years into that, and I'm like banging my head, and I'm like, holy smokes, this is just the latest boondoggle. This adds to the list. This is this is the latest boondoggle, and and costs are going up through the roof still. And and you know, now a surgery that cost literally$12,000 six or seven years ago is fifty thousand dollars for the same thing. And and I'm like, man, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

I uh can you explain that? Where does that money go? Is that is that money that's actually not being paid? Because they're like, okay, look, we'll just say it costs 50, but then we'll give you the discount and we'll come back to like 20.

Healthcare Costs And Medicaid Pressures

SPEAKER_04

Like there's there's part of there's part of that. Okay. So there's part of there's part of the the games. That are played with PBMs on the pharmacy side, with insurance companies on this side, where they're all negotiating rates, and who's getting screwed is the people that are paying it. So there's all that. But but more than anything, the layers of bureaucracy that were added, regulation that the hospitals had to conform with, but then the rules. My best example was I remember the day that one of my really good friends, he owned a surgery center right over here on River Street, and he was bought by St. Luke's. He bought everything. And the day they bought him on the Friday, you would pay X for your surgery there. And on Monday, when the new shingle went up with their name on it, it was seven times that because that was the change. That was if you were associated with a hospital billing number on an outpatient service, you could charge seven times as much over a weekend. And that happened. And I remember going to people that were smart and saying, hey, what's going on? It cost the same thing on Friday as it did on Monday at the same place. How can this be good over time? And the argument was, well, we need it because of all this regulation. We need it because of this. We need it because of that. And and over time, it's just not urgent care. You know, you'd you'd go, I'd sew up a kid and think, man, that took me two stitches in five minutes. Something that would have cost a couple hundred bucks. And you know, I'd see these bills because I'd get the patient complaints come in at 2,500 bucks. And I'm like, hey, we can't charge$2,500. Two stitches. We should have sent them somewhere else then. Because this is and it's like, so that goes on long enough.

SPEAKER_02

Well, it's gone, it's compounding, right?

SPEAKER_04

It's comp it's all compounding, and and and so I don't, I'm not pointing a finger, but I'm just saying But anytime you're trying to change it, there's all this money on the other side that forces you the other way. But the one thing I think is please don't insult our intelligence and say that you're surprised, right? That's my thing. That someone sits on anything and says, oh, we're shocked that it's this way. No, you're not. No one's shocked. Because everyone's been sucking off this thing forever and making money like crazy. And so I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

That's what's gonna break the state. You know, if you look at the Medicaid growth, you know, we were told Medicaid expansion would be 40 million to save us property taxes, all a bunch of lies. Now you're 100 and some million, it didn't save you any tax dollars.

SPEAKER_03

But we don't we don't have the CAT fund anymore, right? Or the indigent fund.

SPEAKER_02

You didn't have to have it before. The hospitals were getting money from the feds for indigent care, they were already getting paid there. We were just doubling up for them. The whole thing needs I don't know how to start it over, right? Because there's so many people that are involved that are sucking at that the trough, right? They're there. I don't I don't know how you unwind it because you thought you even look at it or talk about it. I made some disparaging comments the other day, and holy cow, I've been pummeled for a while over it. Just ask any questions.

SPEAKER_03

What'd you say?

SPEAKER_02

Come on, come on. What'd you say? I haven't got over that one yet. No, I I have a tendency. I'm sitting here trying not to swear.

SPEAKER_04

So you know doing a good job. Hey, you've done really well, but we're already this far in. Hey, my I don't think there are easy answers. And I'm not there's not a I mean I think we're super complicated, and I'm not blaming anybody, but what but what I am saying is don't don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining that you didn't, oh, this is a surprise. And when you I remember Lauren sitting in my doing a podcast with me during the Medicaid expansion thing, Nekichia, because in her prior role forces legislated, saying, Do you have have you seen the estimates on what this is going to cost the state over time? And oh, it's not gonna be that. We're gonna save money. 40 million, it's billions, it's all this stuff. And I'm like, that's not what I'm seeing. And furthermore, you're just adding government incentives to increase the cost of care that ultimately is gonna cost everyone more. So when you do have the so now you have an indigent person that walks that ER right there where I worked night shifts for 10 10 years, right? And the guys that I saw that came in that I took care of every night of my life that were our frequent flyers, what they cost then and what they cost now, it's it's just it's ridiculous. It's crazy what's happened to cost. And now I don't know how you ever unwind it. I don't. And I've and I've asked a lot of really smart people. I told you, did you ever meet Lowell Fenwick? He was he's a North Idaho guy. Uh, he has a place on Priest Lake, and he was passionate about fixing this. And he tried to meet with Trump in his first uh uh first term because I I would sit in his cabin on Priest Lake, we would stay there for two days on these retreats on healthcare. Right. So this is in 2017, and he had whiteboards, he was he was a genius, and he would go through and he just like go, do you realize where this money's going? Do you like look where the money's going? And he had it all mapped out. He's like, I have to get in to someone in Washington, DC to show them that this is gonna screw our entire country because this it doesn't need to be this way because it's not what it cost, like the cost of care. And when then when I did Psalter, it was even I I looked at it and I'm like, we ended up selling to Intermountain Healthcare because they were a big, you know, uh value-based care system. And I was I was getting eaten up because you you get into that next big boy thing and you think you're gonna go do a good thing, and if you you can't compete, and they came in and then they got chased out of town.

SPEAKER_03

But it's um okay, so where did the money go on these whiteboards? He's like, hey man, all fifty thousand dollars, this thing comes in, it should only cost twelve. Where does the money go?

SPEAKER_04

So if you so so if you so well, I'm gonna give you a couple of examples. You want an MRI today? We've we've talked about this.

SPEAKER_02

You need the MRI? Probably. Ask my wife probably.

SPEAKER_04

If you need if you need an MRI today, I'd ask you what your insurance is because I would tell you you could go right down the road here and you can get one for 250 bucks, or you can go right down there and pay$3,500 to$4,000. So the true cost of that is$250. That's what it costs. That's what it costs someone to own the machine, run the machine, do the stuff. Right. So that so then you're saying where's the rest of it goes? Yes, it's in this bloat. Okay. If you look at if you look at what the back end of a hospital system looked like 20 years ago when I started, and the layers of regulation and checking the box and doing the this and whatever, it came with so many regulations and checking the box because they're getting government money because most of the money they get is Medicaid and Medicare. That's where all the money's coming from. And then you've got insurance companies trying to figure it out, taking their cut. You got PBMs on the pharmacy side, which are the devil.

SPEAKER_02

If you look at what PBMs have done to pharmacies, yeah, we did some stuff last in the legislature trying to bring that back so the money wasn't making them wealthy but spread around.

SPEAKER_04

It's it's but that's where it's all going. It's going to all these layers that were created by Obamacare. The the the per the perverse thing was, hey, this is going to, you know, get affordability to health care. And and I smart people said this is gonna screw it up. You should have gone farther. You'd be better off had Medicare for all that were poor, and then a privatized system that allowed it to be competition. And it we went exactly the opposite. We said, let's let government meddle in the middle and let's let big corporations take advantage of all the rules.

SPEAKER_02

Subsidize them, put them on an insurance plan and get out of the way.

SPEAKER_04

Anyway, I don't know how we got on. Sorry about that.

SPEAKER_02

I don't need I wish I knew how to fix it, though. If you've got an idea, I don't have any idea. We're talking about that currently in the legislature. We're making a big change when we go to managed care here in the next few years, and that the I don't know that that helps us or not. I need more info. The Big Beautiful bill also had some changes and all this stuff in the middle of it. And now you've got DC now talking about some new plan. So I don't know what that is. I see Trump's got his new whatever. Uh but you better fix it or we're done. Idaho, when you're spending the kind of money we are on Medicaid, it's gonna break the budget. You don't have money for anything else.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I could talk about this forever, so let's change subject. What else do you want to talk about? No, I'm good. I was enjoying. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03

It's too scary, look away. Run away.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's too scary.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well, here's a question for you. Um when there seem does seem to be tension between um, and again, we were chatting about this a little bit the other day, between local localized municipalities and and the state. Do you see do you see path forward with this?

SPEAKER_02

No, I think there always be tension, right? It's the same issue with the Medicaid, but this group wants more money and this group doesn't want to give them more money. It's that tension between the taxpayers, the tension between the local governments and the state. It's tension. I don't see uh we sh I don't know how many people realize that we share what over well when you throw in uh all the stuff with the revenue sharing, we send back a good chunk of the sales tax to local governments. It's like 20% when you throw on roads and everything else, right? All the different revenue sharing services. And um they will say with that we require them to spend that money on certain mandated services so they need more, right? There's that that that tension. In the meantime, the property taxpayers don't want to pay more at the local level. We don't collect those at the state, that's all done locally. And the state doesn't want to subsidize them very much. So you've got that tension. I don't see it ever going away. Ever. I know the counties came to visit with me today on some of the things they'd like to see changed. Some of them are pretty pretty reasonable, and some of them, you know, I probably don't agree with. Um but that that that's part of the game, right? That's part of politics. Sit down and find out what you agree with, don't agree with, and have those debates. But there will always be a tension between the state and the locals. It's just like Medicaid. There's you'll never put enough money at it to make them happy. Never.

SPEAKER_04

I think they talk a lot about 389.

SPEAKER_02

So yeah, they're still crying about that.

SPEAKER_04

That's that's the one. And I and I think uh do you see um and and listen, I I I this is something I don't know anything about. There's things I have opinion about, but I but you you hear the city side of it, and then you hear are are there are there tweaks or changes to the formula or the way it was looked at as time goes on, or what what are your current thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02

The tweaks they want will put it back to where it was before. Before House Bill 389, when Tommy built a building next to Mike Moyle's farm, my taxes went up. Right? When Matt built his new house next to the other house, another house that had been there for 50 years, the taxes went up. 389 stopped that and said, no, the new guy's not going to drive up the taxes of the old guy. And look at your taxes on property taxes last few years. We've subsidized some money from the state. But they've been going down. I mean, almost everywhere in the state. And I remember almost everywhere, they've been going down because we stopped that shift from the new construction to the others. And there's another part that they complain a lot about, and that's the 8% cap. The cap was put there. That was a number that came from the counties. We negotiated that bill. The cities were in the room, the counties, everybody was in the room and negotiated all that stuff. Uh before House Bill 389, if you go back to 1996 or 8 or whatever it was, it was a 5% cap. So it wasn't like we were going anywhere we had been before. But the cap causes problems with some of the smaller districts that are growing fast, like a star that's growing at 20% a year. So now once they hit the 8% cap, everything above 8% is actually lowering everybody in star's taxes, right? Because the value goes up, the middle levy rate goes down, people pay less taxes. But I just don't see the legislature passing a bill that will put property taxes back on autopilot and growing because of new construction. I don't see it. There may be some adjustments for those smaller.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, is there is there a formula? Is there a formula for a smaller there's not right now?

SPEAKER_02

We've looked at different angles, but most of those different angles means that the legislature has to go in and vote to raise your property taxes without a vote. Remember 389 says if you've got a problem with 80% cap, go have a vote. Let the people decide. Now it worked in Meridian, they passed one, but Star has a mill to pass one for the fire hall. So there's those those debates, you know, of course.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, I see. So so you're saying if if if you if it doesn't cover what you need because it grows. Go send it to the voters, and then that would be that's just a is that a bond? No, it's not for a specific thing.

SPEAKER_02

You can raise the mill levy rate. Levy.

SPEAKER_03

You can maze, you can maze a dollar amount, which would adjust the mill levy rate.

SPEAKER_02

For a specific.

SPEAKER_03

And you can also do yeah, and you can also do a temporary, just a two-year temporary override, and then you can do a full override. Temporary override only requires uh simple majority. Permanent override requires two-thirds majority. But the bottom line is the the the Idaho taxpayer is gonna get exactly what the Idaho taxpayer wants, right? In in the case of Star, they vote on it, they're like, hey man, I'm not about having uh more fire service. Like I understand the impact fees paid for this fire station, it's gonna sit empty until we feel like it. I see what you're saying.

SPEAKER_04

You know, like that's when Meridian just passed this last Meridian passed theirs.

SPEAKER_02

The Meridian got themselves in the box because Meridian during the the the COVID money took some money for more firemen, right? But the deal was that the fire, because it's one time money. That's the problem with doing a two-year. It's one time money. Those, those, so if you don't pass it later, you've got a problem, right? If you don't pass it later, then you have to lay people off. Meridian's not the same case. Meridian's got a ton of man money in the bank. Oh, look, they got literally hundreds of millions sitting in the bank. They're not in trouble. They didn't have to do what they did. Star is a different matter. Star's tighter, stars more you know, day-to-day than like a meridian. And and but the but then you know the it it's cheaper, by the way, which is ironic. If you live in star, it would have been cheaper to support the two and a half million increase in the budget than it is to undo 389. 389, if you undo 389, would cost you more in your property taxes than just voting to put those firemen in that fire station and go from there.

SPEAKER_03

But again, the residents of Star are gonna get exactly what the residents of Star want. They get a vote. And they should get every every bit of that and then some.

SPEAKER_02

And the ones that want to undo 389 want to go back to where the residents of star don't have a say, it just raises your taxes every year because that's the difference.

SPEAKER_04

That was a very succinct, calm answer to one question. I like it. Now when now when I get hit up, like, hey, if you I'll say, go listen to our podcast.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, right. It's I mean, it's complex because people don't. I I talk to a lot of people who say, hey man, they're like star used to be five years ago was 10,000 people, now it's 25,000 people. So people people call me or or hit me up and they're like, Can you explain this to me? Because there should be money falling from the sky. I'm like, no, you don't understand. All of the property taxes, uh plenty of people running for Star City Council brought in their property taxes. They're like, My property tax is 50% of what it was five years ago because of every the 389. Because of three.

SPEAKER_04

But then it makes a then it makes them make choices. And that's right.

SPEAKER_02

You want you want the services, you got to vote for them. And again, you would have been, it's cheaper for them to have voted for that two and a half million for the fire hall than it was to undo 389. And I just don't see the legislature raising your property taxes without a vote.

SPEAKER_03

But again, it also, in a, in an odd way, even though this was a state uh state bill that came across 389, obviously, it puts local control in, hey, individually, you guys get to decide individually if you want something more than this. And if your community does, as Meridian does, they do. And if they don't in Stark, they don't. So it's kind of this odd thing where people criticize 389. And again, I don't know anything about it, but people criticize 389 for saying for saying, hey, this guy's smarter than it. I don't know if it's a good or bad bill. All I'm saying is people criticize it for being big government and taking control away from local, but in reality, it's also giving local control, which is individual item numbers. You can you can vote on these individual things if you want it. And if you don't want them, you don't like it. If you do, you do.

SPEAKER_02

It's not big business, big government. It's it's individual control. You're exactly right. And the one thing that people forget about property taxes, the state of Idaho does not collect them and we do not spend them, right? We can we can mess with the playing field and the rules of the game, like with 389. We give you, the voter, the chance to decide your own fate. But we don't collect them, we don't spend them. That's that's done locally. And they hate that, right? They hate that. We subsidize them a lot with sales tax, like we talked about, and road money, you know, from the fuel tax, but we don't control property taxes. It's a wild times, guys. That's again wild times. Hey, the taxes are going down. It's it's all good. I'm happy.

State Vs Local: Property Tax Tensions

SPEAKER_03

I gotta tell you something. You don't know this, but it's true. I'm batting almost 900 for getting two meals at the receptions I go to. Woo-hoo! What? Tell us more. I made friends with all the servers. So at like the governor's dinner, I got two steaks. The lieutenant governor's brunch, I got two plates of dinner. I feel so good. Those steaks were like cardboard. You can see to me. I am a thankful individual. I was happy to be there and to get two steaks. And I'm a high protein kind of guy. So I was all about it. You know, I did not eat uh potato wedge. Yeah, man, it's great. I'm just there, I'm going for like a thousand this session. If I can get every reception, I get two plates of food. Better than chicken.

SPEAKER_04

So, which way do you take it? Do you like do you like play the hey, I'm I'm this guy, poor me, I need another plate. Or do you take it just it's gonna be super friendly?

SPEAKER_03

I have that from that table over here so we can finish it. How did I get you and you on the podcast? I'm just a nice guy. I'm just a nice guy. You want to there's is there an extra steak back there, man? It's really good. There's something to that. Just being a nice guy. Yeah. Like how about this? The statesman ran an article recently criticizing our Secretary of State for like literally just being too nice. And he had to run this press release. He's like, being polite and nice is not a weak position. Like, it's it's like we don't have to argue. I can just say no politely.

SPEAKER_04

I didn't know the what the story behind it, but that his email came out to it came out in box today, and I read it. I'm like, what the why is he doing like a thing on why it's okay for me to be a nice guy? But now I get it. Right.

SPEAKER_03

So the administration, the federal administration, is asking for information about our voters, and the secretary of state's obviously in control of that information. And and Secretary of State Phil McGrain's like, you know, as he is, he's like, Yeah, I don't think that's a good idea. You know, whatever the conversation is, and then the the statesman wants him to be like dagger's okay, ah. He's like, I'm not gonna do that.

SPEAKER_04

Does anyone read the statesman?

SPEAKER_03

Always called it the daily mistaken. I mean, it's my gosh, don't they just interviewed me? It was a three-hour interview. It's coming out in early February. It's three hours. Three hours. Listen to me though. I recorded the entire thing. We did it in my studio, so I have the video and audio of the entire thing. It gets funny. I'm gonna release three hours interview.

SPEAKER_04

Oh my god. You know what will piss you off? Is is I remember like a few different things. And every time they do it, they did one recently. Uh someone did, and I can't stand this reporter. I can't stand them. And they called me. Oh my god, no one wanted to know what it is. They called me and interviewed me, and it was like a 35-minute thing. And I I shouldn't have like my better, my better sense. I knew better than, and I hung up and I thought, ah, and sure enough, that article came out and it was it was three quotes. It was exactly what he wanted to spin. And I'm thinking, you son of a gun, you got me again. That's why I like long format.

SPEAKER_03

You can you can't, it is what it is. This is gonna be the great marriage of podcast and written journalism because it's gonna be five, it's gonna be a 500-word article and a three-hour video. So it's like, don't tell me you captured the sentiment of this entire conference. And again, I I very much enjoyed the experience. I'm sure it'll be great. But I recorded it just to play the experience.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, it'll be great too. Because never in the history of print media have they needed more sensational stuff. I mean, that's the problem, right? Matthew.

SPEAKER_03

Come on, man. It's gonna be lit. I just I just want to know what quote they took. Like one, two, the one you didn't give is the quote.

SPEAKER_05

Californian taking over Idaho politics, funded by dark money.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my god, could you did I tell you about something like that? Do it. I do it. Oh my god, did I did I tell you about the uh the word on the street about the ranch? Okay, word on the street is in 2022 when I moved here, not knowing anything about Idaho, having no podcast experience, no media expertise, this guy found me. Somehow you found my dumbfire pit with I didn't even leave my street. I didn't know anything about Idaho, but he found me and he's like, This is it, this is the plan. We're gonna get this guy to start a podcast, and he's just gonna talk about pretty much nothing for a couple years, and then it's gonna work, and it's gonna work out. And like somehow he will rise to the top. This is the word on the screen. Like, this is what happened.

SPEAKER_04

You told me that, and and I was thinking about it. I didn't know they know this.

SPEAKER_01

Like, that's the conspiracy.

SPEAKER_04

When you told me the marriage, when you told me that. So at first, I'm like, that's the craziest thing. And then I was laying in bed and I'm thinking, damn, I kind of like that. It's gonna take this.

SPEAKER_03

The last thing I ever want to hear is you're lying about thinking about me.

SPEAKER_01

That's not that's the number one thing. I could know the rest of my life. I thought this was a family, whatever.

SPEAKER_04

What's that what's that joke? It's over. We can cut the episode. Here's the joke. It's like, honey, in in in in my wildest dreams, did you ever think I'd be friends with Matt? And it's like, honey, you're not even close to my wildest dreams.

SPEAKER_01

Even in my wildest dreams, exactly right. That's that's a good thing, Matt, because I was worried about the dream thing.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna give you so much crap.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my gosh, it's so awkward. The things people come up with. Anyway, this is your show. Keep going. I don't have the button.

SPEAKER_04

No, I we have gone everywhere. I knew it would go. Uh last word, Mike. First of all. Last word, first of all, I guess we're done.

SPEAKER_01

We we go to dreams. There's a joke here that we'll talk about later. Go ahead. Oh my gosh. Hey, uh, I want to those are tears.

SPEAKER_04

I want to thank you for coming on. I don't I don't want to thank you. It's it's it's you're busy, you're over.

SPEAKER_02

I hate this stuff.

SPEAKER_04

I'm afraid I know you hate it, and uh it means a lot you come on. I appreciate you. Um I've appreciated you since then may 20 years ago that you're always willing to listen. Your doors open, and I know that's the way it is for everybody. And um, I I I just really appreciate your leadership. So thank you. Final thoughts.

SPEAKER_02

No, listen, Idaho is the best state. Let's get back to Idaho. That's what it's about, right? And that's why everybody's coming here. And it's our job, all of us, we, to keep it that way. Barring all this crap on the phones, the lies, the out-of-state money, everything else. We just got to keep Idaho doing what we're doing because we are winning. We're doing a great job, and we're blessed to be here. God is good.

SPEAKER_04

Amen.

SPEAKER_02

Amen.

SPEAKER_04

Thanks, everybody. Thanks, Mike.